Which Synthetic Oil?

[pberku]

Hi,

I have a '95 Mercedes E300 Diesel. The engine has been recenly rebuilt by Mercedes and has approximatley 10,000 miles on it.

The owner's manual does not specify which grade of oil to use but rather says to use Mercedes recommended Oil. Each Mercedes Dealer is giving me his own opinion. These opinions range anywhere from 0W40 to 5W50 to 15W50.

I live in Montreal Canada where the temperature in the summer can go to 100F and in the winter down to -30F. (I do use a block heater)

I am thinking of using either Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic, or Mobil1 0W40 as a year-round oil for my car.

Are these good choices? Any other recommendations?

Thanks

Phil

[darrellws]

Phillip, where did you get your MB Member Number (9999999}????

[Marshall Booth]

Both Mobil 1 0W40 and Amsoil 10W40 are fine choices. You might also consider Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 (available at many Canadian Wal-Marts I'm told) as well (it MAY be ever slightly superior to both of the others - or at least as good). Here's the list of Mercedes approved oils.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Check out the 228.3 and 228.5 oils as well as the 229.x oils.

Marshall

[pberku]

Hi Marshall,

Thanks for the info and the Web Site reference. The info was great. I am going with Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10W40

Thanks again

Phil

[Marshall Booth]

I believe that Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10W40 will be hard/impossible to find in North America. M-1 0W40 or D-1 5W40 are your best bets.

Marshall

[pberku]

I just picked up 2 cases (ie: 12 * 1 Liter bottles) of Mobil 1 0W40 SuperSyn.

You are right. its not available in the stores but the local Mobil 1 distrubutor had them in his warehouse and was willing to sell them to me.

He only sells them by the case, Each case contains 6 * 1 Liter bottles. Since my car takes 7 Liters I was stuck buying 2 cases.

I plan to change my oil this evening.

Thanks again for the Oil Web site reference that you sent me earlier today.

Regards

Phillip

[Richard Jordan]

You can find 0W-40 at some Walmarts. Forget about Mobil 1 5W-40, it's not sold here, only in Europe. I would look at the owner's manual and see what "C" rating your engine calls for, and then see what the various synthetic oils are rated for.

[Jim Grillot]

You might consider Kendall GT-1, 5W-40 motor oil. It is on the MB qualified list and has all the european qualifications.

[tlbro1]

Phil. What happened to the engine in your 1995 E300 diesel to require overhauling? I have a 1995 E300 diesel with 101100 miles and it is running better all the time.the engine has synthetic oil since day one.
Tom Brown
E300 diesel 101100 K 1995
C220 (hers) 43 K 1995

[pberku]

Hi Tom,

I bought this car as a used car from a Mercedes Dealer. Its Mercedes that rebuilt the Engine.

I traced the previous owner and spoke to him t determine what happened. He informed me that the car overheated, and he kept on driving until the motor seized.

I love this car. The only problem I am having is with the Auxiliary water pump. Its not working. Mercedes wants $600CDN for a new part. This includes the auxiliary water pump, and mono-valve.

Its seems they don't sell the auxiliary water pump separately

[TeeDee]

Interesting site, but from what I have read on this forum, not quite right :(

Use it at your own discretion:

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Vehicle_Chooser/VehicleChooser.aspx?option=1



Lino

[Marshall Booth]

Interesting site, but from what I have read on this forum, not quite right :(

Use it at your own discretion:

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Vehicle_Chooser/VehicleChooser.aspx?option=1


Do you really want to ask an oil company which oil to use? I'd expect them to recommend the oil they sell. Ask the maker of the car!

Marshall

[H-townbenzoboy]

You and Mercedes-Benz recommend Mobil 1, so what's wrong with knowing that, and consulting their site on which weight to use?

[ghoward@goldrus]

I'm using Amsoil 5W40 (DEO). https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/deo.aspx. I order online, and shipping costs are not bad.

[BobK]

AutoZoo near me now carries the Mobil 1 5w40 Turbo Diesel oil. $5.99/qt.

[Marshall Booth]

You and Mercedes-Benz recommend Mobil 1, so what's wrong with knowing that, and consulting their site on which weight to use?

Mobil 1 xW-40 and xW-50 oils are recommended by Mercedes.

I would not depend on Exxon/Mobil's recommendation (after all they sell oil and are likely to recommend what they want to sell) when Mercedes makes recommendations that sometimes conflict with Mobil's.

Mercedes prohibits the use of Mobil 1 xW20 and xW-30 oil. I don't think you'll find that information anywhere on the Mobil 1 pages!

Marshall

[stricht8]

Whatever happened to that Mobil 1 Truck and SUV stuff? I always thought that was the best stuff to use in MB diesels.
Dimitri

[johnmci]

>You are right. its not available in the stores but the local Mobil 1 distrubutor had them in his warehouse and was willing to sell them to me.


Philip since you're in Canada I'll point out your local ESSO agent would also have 20 liter pails of Delvac 1 5w40 handy. I'd check pricing per liter on that versus the 0w40, in me experience out here on the west coast pricing for the 0w40 is more.

Also your local mercedes dealer would have Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 but I suspect pricing is not in your favor.

[Sokoloff]

I think there are now two Mobil 1 5W40's available. One is the Truck and SUV blend and one is the Turbo Diesel Truck blend which is basically Delvac. The Diesel oil is just now showing up on the store shelves as I understand it. I had to mail order my first batch about a month or so ago.

[TeeDee]

In Canada (Toronto, Ontario to be more precise), you can get a case of Delvac 5W40 containing 4 x 4.4 liter jugs directly from the Esso warehouse for only ;) $180.20 Canadian dollars. They are at:

2 Brad Penn Road
Etobicoke
Ontario

Sorry, I do not have the phone number with me. Let me know if you need it in a PM.

Lino

[roibroker]

I was stuck in deep east Texas last week..piney woods country and needed an oil change.....best selection I thought at the time for an E300D was 15-40 Valvoline Blue Max.....the grade info says,

Meets or exceeds the following engine manufacturer's specifications:
Cummins CES 20078, MACK E0-N Premium Plus, CES 20076, Caterpillar, Detroit Diesel (4-stroke), International, VDS-2 and Volvo VDS-3. Also meets ACEA E5-99, Global DHD-1, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL

I read the recommended MB oil list...with no specific reference to 1997 MY....
and Valvoline makes no specific reference to MB.......should I dump this oil like next week? or finish out the 3000 miles??

[jtripp]

I would keep the oil in the engine till your next scheduled oil change. That oil probably exceeds anything non-synthetic that was available or required when your '97 E300 was new.

For maximum engine life I would recommend using the new Mobil 1 5W40 Diesel Truck oil which is now available at AutoZone.

[H-townbenzoboy]

I was stuck in deep east Texas last week..piney woods country and needed an oil change.....best selection I thought at the time for an E300D was 15-40 Valvoline Blue Max.....the grade info says,

Meets or exceeds the following engine manufacturer's specifications:
Cummins CES 20078, MACK E0-N Premium Plus, CES 20076, Caterpillar, Detroit Diesel (4-stroke), International, VDS-2 and Volvo VDS-3. Also meets ACEA E5-99, Global DHD-1, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL

I read the recommended MB oil list...with no specific reference to 1997 MY....
and Valvoline makes no specific reference to MB.......should I dump this oil like next week? or finish out the 3000 miles??

The approved oils site says for 1997 yr models and older, if a MB approved or ACEA B2, B3 or B4 quality engine oil is not available, then an API quality oil with CF-4 and/or CG-4 is ok. Since this Valvoline oil has the CF and CG-4 ratings, I'd say it's fine for this interval until you get the best stuff in.

[coldstart]

Hello I live in halifax and just did the job on the heating system there is a good chance that if they are both not working that the control on the dash is not sending the signal to power them up check that first with simple test light and I believe your system is the same and those two peices are available after market at a reasonable price I will check on your model ,Peter

[coldstart]

if the car is the same as the e320 same year 1995 the pump is 155.00 and the valve is 195.00 cdn Peter

[H-townbenzoboy]

coldstart, I think you posted to the wrong thread.

[coldstart]

actually if you read #10 you will see that he mentioned he has a heating problem and i had just finished the same work

[Don350SDL]

Folks, this thread was from 2003, I bet the car's repaired by now...

[alanmcase]

I purchased a 94 E420 last year and now (belatedly) need to do an oil change. I realize the value of synthetic, but am hesitant to go there due to a bad experience with a Buick wagon I bought new in 1972. At the 120k mile mark, everyone around me started touting AMSoil. So I changed. Before long I had leaking seals up the ying-yang, and was then told that synthetic is not for higher mileage cars unless they've been on that diet from birth.

My E420 is at 131k. So...
(1) How do I tell if it has synthetic in it now?
(2) If it does not, should I avoid synthetic at this age?

Thanks all,

Alan

[Marshall Booth]

I purchased a 94 E420 last year and now (belatedly) need to do an oil change. I realize the value of synthetic, but am hesitant to go there due to a bad experience with a Buick wagon I bought new in 1972. At the 120k mile mark, everyone around me started touting AMSoil. So I changed. Before long I had leaking seals up the ying-yang, and was then told that synthetic is not for higher mileage cars unless they've been on that diet from birth.

My E420 is at 131k. So...
(1) How do I tell if it has synthetic in it now?
(2) If it does not, should I avoid synthetic at this age?


If you want to apply what you learned on you Buick - I suggest another Buick!

Mercedes recommends synthetics in ALL of it's engines old and new.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

As to question 1) - it doesn't matter what's in it now.

Since you bought their car why not follow their recommendations on oil? They might know a little more than we do! They've certainly been building cars longer!

Marshall

[alanmcase]

Marshall,

I have posted on these forums over the past year and have generally gotten well thought out, considerate, and helpful answers. As a moderator, I expected the same from you if not better. Respectfully, I'd like to point out that you were not very helpful; and your tone borders on ridicule. Please allow me to elaborate.

You said "If you want to apply what you learned on you [sic] Buick - I suggest another Buick!" That's kind of funny. But not helpful. For one thing, it's elitist. Most importantly, you're missing the point that lessons can be learned on engines no matter the manufacturer.

You next said, "Mercedes recommends synthetics in ALL of it's engines old and new.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html" If I've gotten this far in the thread, I've obviously already reviewed all websites mentioned. So this is useless information.

Your next comment was, "As to question 1) - it doesn't matter what's in it now." is really missing the point. Of course it matters. If it now has synthetic in the engine, then I have no qualms about continuing with synthetic - my issue is resolved. If it does not have synthetic, then I revert to the original issue and question the wisdom of switching to synthetic in a higher mileage engine that may have been using regular oils. Rubber tends to expand with regular oils and it wears accordingly. Synthetics will let rubber seals tend towards their original state - so, if they're worn from being a bit swelled up they can leak when no longer expanded. This was the issue in the late 70s. Is it still?

Your final comment, "Since you bought their car why not follow their recommendations on oil? They might know a little more than we do! They've certainly been building cars longer!" I'd be glad to, as long as the previous owners of my car did. But if they did not, what then? This is the whole reason for my post. Please advise.

Best regards,

Alan

[Marshall Booth]

Marshall,

I have posted on these forums over the past year and have generally gotten well thought out, considerate, and helpful answers. As a moderator, I expected the same from you if not better. Respectfully, I'd like to point out that you were not very helpful; and your tone borders on ridicule. Please allow me to elaborate.

You said "If you want to apply what you learned on you [sic] Buick - I suggest another Buick!" That's kind of funny. But not helpful. For one thing, it's elitist. Most importantly, you're missing the point that lessons can be learned on engines no matter the manufacturer.

You next said, "Mercedes recommends synthetics in ALL of it's engines old and new.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html" If I've gotten this far in the thread, I've obviously already reviewed all websites mentioned. So this is useless information.

Your next comment was, "As to question 1) - it doesn't matter what's in it now." is really missing the point. Of course it matters. If it now has synthetic in the engine, then I have no qualms about continuing with synthetic - my issue is resolved. If it does not have synthetic, then I revert to the original issue and question the wisdom of switching to synthetic in a higher mileage engine that may have been using regular oils. Rubber tends to expand with regular oils and it wears accordingly. Synthetics will let rubber seals tend towards their original state - so, if they're worn from being a bit swelled up they can leak when no longer expanded. This was the issue in the late 70s. Is it still?

Your final comment, "Since you bought their car why not follow their recommendations on oil? They might know a little more than we do! They've certainly been building cars longer!" I'd be glad to, as long as the previous owners of my car did. But if they did not, what then? This is the whole reason for my post. Please advise.

Clearly you need someone FAR wiser than I am. I'd change the oil to what Mercedes recommends!

Marshall

[alanmcase]

Marshall,

Thanks, I'll do just that unless someone far wiser than either of us warns me off. I just don't want to hurt my baby.

Alan

[tarbe]

Alanmcase

You'll be fine. Use a good diesel rated 5W-40 oil and don't look back.


Tim

[ghoward@goldrus]

I'm using Amsoil 5W-40, called DEO. I selected it instead of Delvac because it has slightly higher viscosity at 100 C, and the cost of having it shipped to me brings the price to the same as buying Delvac in a store, sometimes difficult.

I've recently switched to synthetics in an engine that was using dino for the last 200kmi, and I experienced a period of increased oil consumption, followed by a return to near the original level. Meade reported the same experience.

I recommend synthetics partly because of Marshall's report of doubled life of timing chains, partly because of the sound of the engine when starting cold :), and because my engine runs much better. They've taken care of the shrinking seals with the recent synthetics with additives, although if the seal was ready to fail, synthetics won't repair it. I'm not experiencing any increased leakage.

[alanmcase]

Guy,

Your last sentence took care of the last vestige of my concerns. Thank you. I'm definitely using synthetic for my oil change. Might even put it into my wife's Toyota mini-van. :eek:

Thanks to all,

Alan

[Maxbumpo]

Alan,

I've converted every car I own(ed) to M1 synthetic oils:

1985 300TD with ~280k miles of unknown oil use = oil consumption increased, oil leaks decreased. Switched back to dino oil due to oil consumption of ~1 qt per 1000 miles.

1985 190D with 104k miles of known dino oil = no leaks, no oil usage between 5k mile oil changes.

1987 300TD with 286k miles of unknown oil use = oil consumption decreased, leaks about the same.

1996 Infiniti I30 with ~120k miles of at least some dino oil use = no leaks, no change in consumption (did not burn dino oil either).

I also use it in my lawn mower and emergency generator and neither one of them leaks.

One additional benefit that I've noticed is that hot idle oil pressure improved in both my '85 300TD and my '87 300TD. In the '85 300TD it improved from 1.5 bar to 2.0 bar. In the '87 300TD it has improved from 0.8 bar to about 1.2 bar and seems to still be getting better (only on second oil change of M1 in that car).

[alanmcase]

Mr. Dillon,

Excellent info and provides even more ammunition towards using M1. My problems with AMSoil in the 70s seem to be solved with the modern version of synthetics.

Thanks,

Alan

[ghoward@goldrus]

Alan,


One additional benefit that I've noticed is that hot idle oil pressure improved in both my '85 300TD and my '87 300TD. In the '85 300TD it improved from 1.5 bar to 2.0 bar. In the '87 300TD it has improved from 0.8 bar to about 1.2 bar and seems to still be getting better (only on second oil change of M1 in that car).

I've noticed a slight increase in hot idle pressure as well, but I've attributed it to an increase in idle speed due to lower friction and better compression. I don't know this, as I don't have a way to measure RPMs, just speculating. It could also be higher oil viscosity at temp. - the oil grading system allows for some leeway.

[Maxbumpo]

I don't think that it is due to higher viscosity, or it would appear immediately instead of gradually.

Also, lower friction increasing idle speed would be an immediate affect as well.

Cleaned up rings leading to better compression leading to increased idle speed? I don't know why not. Anything that would increase idle speed would increase oil pressure.

My idea is that the cleaning action improves something. Perhaps it cleans the seat of the oil pressure release valve? Clean up something in the oil pump? Cleans up something in the fuel injection pump that increases idle speed?

[jtripp]

Isn't the idle speed controlled by the governor in the injection pump regardless of oil temp or viscosity?

I imagine that any cleaning benefits would increase clearances.

How about the superior viscosity stabilization bridgeing the gaps in the oil pump and thruout the engine?

[greasy kid]

Hi,

I have a '95 Mercedes E300 Diesel. The engine has been recenly rebuilt by Mercedes and has approximatley 10,000 miles on it.

The owner's manual does not specify which grade of oil to use but rather says to use Mercedes recommended Oil. Each Mercedes Dealer is giving me his own opinion. These opinions range anywhere from 0W40 to 5W50 to 15W50.

I live in Montreal Canada where the temperature in the summer can go to 100F and in the winter down to -30F. (I do use a block heater)

I am thinking of using either Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic, or Mobil1 0W40 as a year-round oil for my car.

Are these good choices? Any other recommendations?

Thanks

Phil

[greasy kid]

Suggest that you email Mobile 1 at their site. Give them the details and they will make a recommendation. Personally Mobile 1 is the only synthetic I would use.

[mb240d#2]

I switched to Mobil 1 0/40 this past winter in my 1980 240D with 160000 miles on it. I was a little concerned about going synthetic. But on the advice of Marshall I did it. It was a BIG help in starting in the cold weather here in Maine. I have not noticed any oil leaks, or oil consumption. It actually seems like it is running better after 5000 miles.
So after that change I have learned to listen to Marshall even though the mechanic I use says differently.
Bob and his 240D.....she is a sweetheart

[alanmcase]

I went to the Mobil website at:
www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Vehicle_Chooser/VehicleChooser.aspx?option=2

I then simply dialed in my car and they recommended Mobil 1 0W40.

They will even tell you where you can buy it in your area. Kragen had it for $5.99 per quart. My car likes it.

[H-townbenzoboy]

With a diesel, Mobil 1 5W-40 is the best. It's got the additives and the soot suspension qualities diesel engines need. Mercedes-Benz is starting to shy away from using the 0W-40 in their cars now anyway in favor of the 5W-40 variety.

[ghoward@goldrus]

I switched to Mobil 1 0/40 this past winter in my 1980 240D with 160000 miles on it. I was a little concerned about going synthetic. But on the advice of Marshall I did it. It was a BIG help in starting in the cold weather here in Maine. I have not noticed any oil leaks, or oil consumption. It actually seems like it is running better after 5000 miles.
So after that change I have learned to listen to Marshall even though the mechanic I use says differently.
Bob and his 240D.....she is a sweetheart

Mobil doesn't call out this oil as a diesel oil. Is this not a problem?

[Maxbumpo]

Mobil doesn't call out this oil as a diesel oil. Is this not a problem?

No, because MB says it meets MB specs for their diesel engines.

[Marshall Booth]

Mobil doesn't call out this oil as a diesel oil. Is this not a problem?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx

Is rated as API SM/CF. The CF rating meets OR exceeds the requirements for most Mercedes passenger car diesels (if the base oil is suitable) especially since the sulfur content of diesel fuel has diminished to almost none.

Mercedes does NOT recommend choosing oil based on API ratings as some oiuls with identical API ratings will not equally meet Mercedes standards.

I prefer this oil:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx

Marshall

[sbiggers]

Both Mobil 1 0W40 and Amsoil 10W40 are fine choices. You might also consider Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 (available at many Canadian Wal-Marts I'm told) as well (it MAY be ever slightly superior to both of the others - or at least as good). Here's the list of Mercedes approved oils.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Check out the 228.3 and 228.5 oils as well as the 229.x oils.

Marshall

Is the Mobil Delvac 15w40 synthetic?

[H-townbenzoboy]

Is the Mobil Delvac 15w40 synthetic?

No, it's conventional.

[Marshall Booth]

Is the Mobil Delvac 15w40 synthetic?

"Mobil 1" oils and "Delvac 1" oils are synthetics. "Mobil" oils and "Delvac" oils are not.

Marshall

[FinnBenz]

If you run your car in cold climate 0W-40 is the way to go. The lower the viscosity number the sooner your engine will get lubricated after startup.

With conventional mineral oils in freezing conditions (15W-xx) it can take up to 2 minutes before the first drop of oil reaches the lifters. This will create a tremendous amount of wear no matter how often you change the oil.

This is why all the cars have been running with fully synthetic oils for over a decade down here.

[ghoward@goldrus]

Suggest that you email Mobile 1 at their site. Give them the details and they will make a recommendation. Personally Mobile 1 is the only synthetic I would use.

Why only Mobil 1 synthetics? I ask because I just started using Amsoil 5W40 DEO.

[Jim Hansz]

Not to prolong this discussion unnecessarily, but...

In browsing through the thread I found myslef once again clicking on Wolfgang's oil link and noticed something for the first time.

The US models with FSS are required to choose oils from the 229.3, 229.5 and 229.51 lists, and the US models with MMS select from the 229.5 and 229.51 lists.

Here is what I have just noticed:

" Rest of World: Approved Oils for the Latest Engines
In all countries other than the USA oils recommended for the new engines should meet MB 229.1 or 229.3 and can be mineral, semi-synthetic or full synthetic. The label "Meets MB sheet 229.1 or 229.3" can usually be found on the oil container."

Which leads to my question: Is there something special about MBs in the the rest of the world that accounts for the different, and far more liberal oil specification? If so, I would really like to know what it is. Or, is this just some bit of unofficial guidance from Wolfgang?

Cheers,

JCH

[Maxbumpo]

My guess would be (a) emmissions requirements for US, and (b) CAFE standards for US. Rest of the english speaking world does not share US requirements.

[uberwgn]

there are plenty of oils available in the USA that meet 229.xx.

The new dealer oil is Mobil Formula M lo-SAPS. I don't think you'll see this 5W-40 oil anywhere except the dealer.