W123-TECH: Moonroof sunroof sliding moon sun roof

[Grey Ghost]

My sunroof leaks in the car wash. I've had it to the shop twice, and they've cleared the drain and adjusted the sunroof so it fits flush with the roof top. Any more ideas?

[Tom Hanson]

New seals would probably help, if they haven't been replaced already. You might also pull the headliner and see of there are any rust holes in the framework where the water travels to the drain tubes.

[Grey Ghost]

thx, Tom

I'm sure that's NOT a DIY job, right?

[Tom Hanson]

That job will be more tedious than difficult. So many trim parts to remove before you can get the main headliner out. Do you have the shop manual ?

[Grey Ghost]

I"m all thumbs anyhoo. I'll add it to the shop's "to-do" list for my next oil change. The roof does NOT leak during hard rain, just under the pressure of a car wash

[D.L. SWINFORD]

Grey Goast, Skip#1';
I'm so sorry you're having so many problems with your wagon.
My sedan hasn't had any of the problems your wagon is having, the climate I imagine.
Tom ask a very pointed question.
Get a set of manuals.
I prefer the hard copy vs. the cd. Costs more but I like to hold a book in my hand and look see and read.
To each his own.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from The Spiderman on the Gulf Coast, Don:p :p :p

[Grey Ghost]

I consider these items opportunities to improve my machine...after almost twenty years, seals dry out

I almost enjoy spending money getting GG tuned up to spec...adds to her CHARACTER, don't you know?

I want her to function as well as she looks...

[D.L. SWINFORD]

Skip#1';
GG so that's her name!
GeeGee?
Happy Trails Beep Beep from the Spiderman on the Gulf Coast, Don:p :p :p

[Grey Ghost]

GG is "Grey Ghost," which is mucho more dignified than "GeeGee"

[D.L. SWINFORD]

Skip #1';
Gee Gee or G G maybe Ghee Ghee is far more lady like than Grey Goast.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from The Spiderman on The Gulf Coast, Don:p :p :p

[KTaylor]

Does anyone have a link or possess instructions for changing the cable on a 123 sunroof. The sunroof motor runs fine but no action from the sunroof. (I was putting off cleaning and regreasing the track mechanism. Lesson learned.)
thanks
kt

[Grey Ghost]

I didn't realize any of the 123 sunroofs were electric...the question I have about mine is whether it locks in the retracted position. My sunroof crashed to a close during a sudden stop the other day when it was in the "locked" position...

[GrayStar]

Skip, my 1983 has an electric "escape hatch".When I open it to FULL OPEN, I always reverse it about 1/4". I have this feeling that someday it will stick in the open position. Call me goofy but I feel better doing it that way. By-the-way, it feels good to be back in the forum. Summer time keeps me at the New Jersey shore. The financial situation for the 123 Character Club is the same...NO DUES! This is the best not-for-profit club going! Take care. I hope to be visiting the forum more now that summer is winding down. Toward the end of the season I always say that "I'm all shored out!" which means it's time to close for the winter. Once again...It's great to be back!

[MBZ300CD]

Does anyone have a link or possess instructions for changing the cable on a 123 sunroof. The sunroof motor runs fine but no action from the sunroof. (I was putting off cleaning and regreasing the track mechanism. Lesson learned.)
thanks
kt
I've got Kent Bergsman's "Sunroof Service and Repair" booklet.
http://mercedessource.com
His kit is well worth the cost. It's got the correct grease and more detail than I have time to give. There are quite a few steps to take to change the cable. You've got to open the sunroof about 6", pull the sunroof vinyl panel loose (be careful of the clips and try not to bend the panel ), open the sunroof all the way while pulling the panel up and out to remove it, close the sunroof to about 2", unbolt the cable attach point, there is a special "C" clip holding the cable TAKE NOTE of HOW IT"S ATTACHED and don't loose it, then undue the cross bar (mark it's location), open the roof all the way, then turn the ignition on and while pulling on the cable push the switch to close the sunroof. whew! It's really greasy black so cover the car up to protect it. :cool:

EDIT: Replacing it is even more complicated. I suggest you buy Kents kit :cool:

[bwalke]

I used to love and adore the manual sunroof on my 82 300td. Now I have a 83 300 CD with the power sunroof, which I really could do without. Ever since I have had it, the sunroof has marginally worked and I leave the interior cover off just so I can help it along when it gets stuck. Regardless, this is getting old. I have replaced the sunroof cable and lubricated it for to a tune of 135.00. When the cable is not hooked up to the roof, it moves just fine. Therefore I can only surmise that the actual roof is not lubricated well. Question: What kind of lubricant should I use for the roof or could it be adjusment? Any suggestions or shared frustrations are appreciated.

[joeym7]

Hi You could be having a few problems,you say you took out the cable and lube it,with it disconected from the roof and motor did it go back and forth with little effort if so I would check the clutch on the motor and adjust it ,and with the cable off see how the roof moves so you can isolate weather its the roof binding,or the cable binding in the jacket( tubing) or a worn motor.joeymPS also makre sure the tail end of the cable after the motor is free and not sticking in the out put tube

[Grey Ghost]

power sunroof? we don't need no stinkin' power sunroofs!

[bwalke]

power sunroof? we don't need no stinkin' power sunroofs!

Don't even start me. It snowed here in chicago and I don't even know why I am worrying about this now.

I have replaced the old cable with a new one so now it just seems like a matter of lubrication and adjustment. Too bad I ripped an inch long gash in my headliner while dissassembling.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

[pch2021]

lubritcatge the rails with a good synthetic grease. Second, check the adjustment for the sunroof height. If it is too high it will bind. If it is too low, the roof will sit too low in its frame and water can accumulate. The rails[Inner parts and all] MUST BE VERY SLICK!Use a very heavy oil or synthetic grease! Cables are rarely at fault.

[H-townbenzoboy]

lubritcatge the rails with a good synthetic grease. Second, check the adjustment for the sunroof height. If it is too high it will bind. If it is too low, the roof will sit too low in its frame and water can accumulate. The rails[Inner parts and all] MUST BE VERY SLICK!Use a very heavy oil or synthetic grease! Cables are rarely at fault.

You're supposed to lubricate the sunroof rails with MB grease only. Supposedly, anything else will attract dirt. MB sells it for "mucho dinero" in big "cans", well, you don't need that much. I think Rusty has them in little (35mm film) canisters for a good price. Check to see.

[pch2021]

yes, mercede sdoes use a apsecial lithium grease.

And it still attracts dirt and dust. Suppoasedly, most synthetic greases [especially those from valvoline seem to be just as effective. No big gobs o greasde are needed, But a huge can of MB grease isnt needed either.

[VLayton]

I suspect hight adjustment issues as well, unles the flex cable tube is bent/misaglined.

George Murphy sells the proper MB grease in in justifiable quantities, when you only need $5 worth. Performance Analysis.

[bwalke]

I called a dealer here in Chicago and they said that the grease available from the dealer is "a lifetime supply" and no owner should buy it because it comes in a tub the size of wheel bearing grease for fifty dollars. He actually would not sell it to me because he thought it was a waste. Then he recommended something called "sil slip" or something. Basically, he said that aftermarket grease is the best way to go... interesting.

[drapersmeadow@a]

Hi there bwlake....

I've been working on my Daughters 87 300D Turbo roof for some time now......

The cable started binding and popped out of the tube back in the Spring......

Pulled out the headliner and removed the cable. It had gotten so gummed up from old grease that it actually popped out of the tube and rolled into a loop.
Removed the old cable, got a replacement from George Murphy (along w/ a film canister of grease...Good Stuff) and proceeded to reinstall....

The cleaning out of the tube to void it of old grease is the most important. Sounds like you had this done OK. If the motor moves the cable freely in and out, w/out the sunroof attached, then I suspect it is the rails and glides.

When you have the roof open, you need to remove the chrome rails along the edges of the opening. (5 countersunk screws each side) Under these is where the glides (felt feet) run and these get gummed up from dirt and grease. Wipe these down and ALL areas that you can get to. Clean the grease and dirt from the surfaces. Do the same with the airdam glides (chrome arms that attach to the dam. Pop them out and clean all airdam parts well.
Another part that needs to be cleaned are the plastic glides (vertical along inside of track area) Once again clean out the grooves.

In my case, I removed the sunroof completely to get at all the parts. (4 8mm screws...place roof in Rear Open position to get to them easy) The roof lifts right off. Remove the cross bar (6 8mm screws) and then lift out the adjusting mechanisms of both sides. Clean these well also.

NOTE WHERE GREASE IS ON PARTS BEFORE CLEANING AND ONLY PUT IT BACK IN THOSE SPOTS.

Reinstall in reverse order all parts. When you reinstall roof...leave the 4 8mm screws finger tight. As someone said in earlier thread...these need to be adjusted correctly to allow roof to glide. Mine seemed to be in the middle of the adjustment holes for best slide. TAKE NOTE OF THEIR POSITION BEFORE REMOVAL.

Back to the Spring of this year......
My situation got more involved when I needed the new cable, pulled the roof shut, ordered the cable on Monday, got caught up in other jobs and 2 weeks later my Daughter calls...DAD the roof just blew open while i was driving down the road! HELP!! I had forgotten to replace the rails before I closed the roof and there were no Hold Down rails.......BAMM! :eek:

Well....ended up going to Potomac German Auto finally last month(only 15 mins from my house) and had to get a replacement sunroof for parts. Had broken the vertical glides right out of the car! Had to Jerry Rig them w/ countersunk screws to replace.......

DONT FORGET TO REPLACE ALL THE PARTS!! :o

Well so much for the Sun Roof Saga....cleaning and lube job is the key to your wows, more than likely. Good thing is that you can run all Winter and do this in the spring.

Local shop quoted me $1,500 o do the job.....took a couple of weekends,but well worth the savings! :)

Good Luck!!

Sam Draper

[pauly]

I cleanes out the drain tubes and the leaks stopped. the problem is the drain tube fill up with crude and clog. keep them clean try a air hose to blow them out then try pouring water down them to make sure they are un-clogged

[pauly]

don`t drive through the car wash besides its toonice to run it through there anyway

[Ediesel]

Hello Everyone!
I have a 300D That needs much help.
My sunroof is one of many things that needs repair.
I've located the motor and found it to work fine but the cable seems to be missing or possibly broken.
Well to make a long story short, I bought a new cable off ebay and I'm ready to replace/install it.
I managed to get sunroof open but it was very tough, as it took almost all my strength to pull it back by the center bar.
Is this normal?
By the way, Awesome Site and many thanks to everyone!!!

[VLayton]

How did you manage to open it enough to remove the sliding roof headliner? Did you use the manual crank in the trunk? This would mean you have a cable. No, it's not normal to require that much force normally, unless you were driving the cable rotation along with it. Might as well replace the cable since you have one, but the real symptom is possibly congealed grease and dry sliding rails. If motor is really ok (just because is spins on electric doesn't mean it's ok) the new cable and fresh lubing should make it work well.

Good Luck

[Grey Ghost]

lucky you, with the electric sunroof. Hope you can get it working again!

[VLayton]

I prefer the manual moonroof. Less problems and lack of many expensive/difficult replacement parts. Wagons only have manual ones.

[Benz 300]

the 240 i'm about to buy has an electric sunroof that works great!!! i'm so excited about it!!!

[Ediesel]

Update:
I was able to grab the support bar through the sunroof headliner and pull it straight back, wasn't easy though.
The cable was missing.
I think this was someones parts car before I got it. :(
New cable works great, and I got It all hooked up to the motor but I'm waiting on new seals before I finish installing sunroof.

Would anybody here happen to know where I might find those short arms that go to the sun roof air deflector?

[Maxbumpo]

Best to go to your dealer for odd parts like those.

There is also a kit of parts to replace the springs and other bits that make the deflector pop up, the original stuff wasn't up to snuff.

[Ediesel]

:confused: Thanks again guys for all your helpful support and advice.

But unfortunately there's still one little problem I'm having with it.

The thing works beautiful right up until the last inch of trying to close it.

It acts as if the motor doesn't have enough power to carry out its final task.

Opens on its own without any help but requires assistance to completely close it.

As I mentioned earlier, I replaced all four seals could it be that I got the front seal in upside down or something?

PS
Dropped her off Monday Morning to be re painted...
Should be ready near the end of this week. Cant Wait to see it! :D

[redgaucho]

I am beginning to hear a bit of whistling noise at highway speeds, and when I looked at the sunroof seal, from the top and in the closed position, I noticed a tiny gap, near both rear corners of the seal. No leaks in the trunk or anything like that yet, but I think the noise may be coming from here.

Is this something that can be repaired, or should I get a new seal? If the latter, has anyone rnrd this rubber seal before?

Any tips will be greatly appreciated,

Happy motoring,

[redgaucho]

Any ideas or tips anyone?

[Don350SDL]

Yes. Before you do anything, make sure that's the problem.

Cover the seam with masking tape - if the noise goes away, that's the problem. If not, keep taping...

If that is the problem, see why those gaps are there, forst. It may be an integral part of the functionality, and closing them up might cause other problems. New seals are a royal pain, but not that challenging (except to patience...)

I've had to tape up a car with almost a whole roll in some cases before we fount the noise. Wipers, mirror seams, door seams, headlamps, and yes, the sunroof, are all common spots.

Don

[redgaucho]

Thanks, Don

It amazes me how often I skip basic fault finding techniques these days! I was so narrowly focused on replacing the seal because of what I thought was a gap in the seal, I failed to consider checking to make sure that is the real source of my problem! Thanks a bunch for the halting suggestion. I will try that out first in the next few days.

I suppose the blue painter's masking tape is pretty good for not leaving a sticky residue after peeling it off. Is this what u use, Don?

Thanks again,

/s/

[Ajordan002]

when my door seals were worn down about half the rubber was gone. 100% silicone works magically. conforms to the door, and made to last forever.

[Don350SDL]

Blue tape, beige tape - it's only on for a half hour, doesn't matter. Both are fine. Have even used clear packing tape and duct tape, but don't recommend it...

Don

[mgburg]

Serge:

Have you taught it the words? :eek: Then it can quit whistling!!! :p

[hamsandwich81]

Can hear motor trying but no movement. Car was painted and it is all over the seal so i am assuming it may be painted shut?
So I ordered:

Rear seal
front seal
seal brushes

I'd like to get started but I 'd like to make sure I have all that i will need before i begin. Mercedes sunroof lube a must?

Most imortant does any one know of diy source for the job?

Many thanks

[VLayton]

Merecedessource?

[hamsandwich81]

thanks Vince, just found 123d yesterday and really enjoyed reading the section with the production #"s. I was suprised how few 85 300dt were made in comparison to other years and models.

[VLayton]

:cool:

Production ended around August, but the 1985 model year was started about September 1984. Still, if you figure that leaves about 15,000 or 1985 300D, it's impressive how many are still kicking strong. :)