Data Plate

[John Vipond]

Can anyone tell me what the numbers are on the painted over data plate that sits on the frame work in front of the radiator on my 1970 280SE? I can identify some of the numbers but the top row and the three numbers above that row on the right are a particular mystery. Also the bottom row.

I have my data sheet but that doesn't seem to shed any light for me.

[Dean Yelenik]

I don't have the holy grail that tells what's where but there is a website that lists MB codes - maybe you can make some guesses. It's strangely named but the site is:

geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/5350/mbcodes.htm

[John Vipond]

Thanks Dean,

You suggestion pretty much answered all but the botton line of numbers. I haven't figured that out yet.

[Dean Yelenik]

What's on the bottom line? maybe I'll take a guess.

[John Vipond]

Dean

The numbers I have for a '71 3.5 Coupe are:

3rd line: 111027 12 7
4th line: 0 73058 00754

Another '71 3.5 reads:

3rd line:111027 12 7
4th line: Q 72652 Q0626

What do you think?

John

[Tom Hanson]

John,
Give me a call during the week. I'm just getting back from vacation and it will be crazy for a few days, but i have the code book at work. Copy down all the numbers and call me and I'll tell you what each one means. They are "build codes".

[Dean Yelenik]

The first eight digits of the third line are the first eight digits of your VIN number. I'm not sure what the "7" is.

You should have a 14 digit VIN from that era - 111 027 12 plus six more numbers.

The 111 is chassis number.

027 is for a 3.5 coupe. 026 was a 3.5 cabriolet. 025 was a 2.8 six cylinder coupe. 024 was a 2.8 cab. Before that there were 021s, 022s and 023s going back to the 220s.

I believe the 7th digit - 1 - is for gas engine.

I believe the 8th digit - 2 - is for one type of automatic transmission, a 1 is for another type of automatic and a 0 is for a manual transmission. I once had a Euro stick shift that was a 111 027 10.

On the VIN, not the data plate, the 9th thru 14 digits is for sequential numbering of the cars. I believe the 3.5 coupes and cabs were numbered together, that is 1 through about 4500 - something like 3300 coupes and 1200 cabs. So the 9th and 10th digits are always 0s on a 3.5.

The 4th line is a mystery but I'm sure Tom will be able to get it. I used to get the vehicle data cards - like an IBM punch card - on old vehicles by writing to MBAG, D70322 Stuttgart, Germany (they put the zip code in front, and you need no street address for MB in Stuttgart.) Tom may be able to get them as well. The cards tell you everything about the car. I have something that explains the data cards - send me an email if you'd like to get a copy.

[Dean Yelenik]

I think there's something wrong here - I think the coupes are the even numbers, 024 and 026, and the cabriolets the odd numbers, 025 and 027. If that's right and you have a coupe that is an 027 it must be mis-plated. But why would anyone put a cab plate on a coupe? I cab plate would be in great demand for the faux cabs, i.e. the converted coupes.

Also, if you write off to Mercedes to get the data production card you have to include proof that you own the car - because it has a key code on it.

[John Vipond]

Hi Dean,

I was reading off a coupe data plate that I got off e-bay. I don't have the data plate for my car because it was removed and not replaced when the car was re-painted. I do have the data card for my card and the vin# is: 111025 12 003706. Sorry for the confusion.

John

[Tom Hanson]

I'll throw this much in the pot for now..
111.026 is a coupe. 111.027 is a convertible.

[perry]

were the last 4 digits on the VIN sequential just for the 3.5 coupes and cabs, or did they also include the 6 cylinder coupes and cabs as well?

if the 6 cylinder cars were on a separate sequence, do we know if the vin numbering reset when they changed to low grill configuration in 1970? Any way to tell a low grill 6 cylinder coupe/cab by just the vin number?

Since I have one, I'm curious how many low grill cabs were made. I have seen a claim on oursl.com to be 376 and as hi as 800 on other's ads. Sellers always state that they are rarer than the 3.5 cabs...but it doesn't mean its more valuable.

Perry

[Dean Yelenik]

I'm not positive about this - but my understanding is that 026 and 027 3.5 were numbered together, and 024 and 025 2.8s were numbered together, and included both high and low grill. In other words the numbering was based on engine and not grill type. It seems to me the high grill 2.8 are pretty rare - I've seen more low grill. Everything below 024, i.e. the 021, 022 and 023 were 2.2s and 2.5s, and all high grill, and of course all 3.5s were low grill. I've always heard the low grill was a DOT requirement for the U.S. - something about front visability. So they did it because they had to - during the 2.8 production period.

[John Vipond]

Here is come information I obtained through John Olson from Danny Stahl.

Danny says this came from Frank Barrett but Frank does not mention his source. I would think it quite reliable. The yearly production breakdown for the combined 280SE Cp/Cab equipped with the 6 cylinder engine was:
1967 - 55
1968 - 1950
1969 - 2,501
1970 - 613
1971 - 68

He didn't have the yearly breakdown by Coupe and Cabriolet, but he did know the totals for the 280SE. There were 3,784 low grille Coupes and 1,399 Cabriolets built. If we assume this same ratio of Coupes to Cabriolets for the last 681 cars, it gives us 497 Coupes 184 Cabriolets of the 280SE with the low grille. There were 3,270 Coupes and 1,232 Cabriolets built with the 3.5 engine. The same ratio could be used to estimate production of certain, or all, the high grille cars and I have the numbers if you would like them..

I hope this is informative.

John Vipond

[perry]

Originally posted by Dean Yelenik
I've always heard the low grill was a DOT requirement for the U.S. - something about front visability. So they did it because they had to - during the 2.8 production period.

If its was a DOT requirement, wouldn't MB have needed to modify the grills of the 108/109 cars as well?

Perry

[Dean Yelenik]

Those were much lower grills to begin with.

[Enigma_Owl]

This is a great discussion, but if I could add just a few things:

1) Dean has got his vin body type numbers reversed. The 2.8 coupes are 24, the 3.5 coupes are 26, the 2.8 cabs are 25, and the 3.5 cabs are 27.

2) Dean is absolutely right however about the 2.8's and 3.5's individual units being counted together in the last 7-digits of the vin numbers. Whether a coupe or cab of each engine type, they were part of the same 7-digit series.

3) In 1969, the DOT required that these cars would have a lower grill height (for visibility) and safety headrests. MBZ introduced the 3.5 w111 with these two features in-place in mid-1969 (I don't know the numbers, but nearly all the '69&1/2 3.5's were Euros, but the 2.8's still had the high-grill all the way through that model year). Incidently, the DOT also required years earlier that the license plate lights be on the sides of the plate mounted vertically, as opposed to being mounted on the bumper horizontally (thus a telltale sign of a U.S. car vs. a Euro).

4) Dean was also right about the middle two numbers in a vin of that era referring to the transmission type (usually a 10 for manuals and a 12 for automatics). I've been told that there were only eleven U.S. manual transmission 3.5 w111's made, of which only 4 are known to have survived to today. Manuals were a lot more common among the Euros, though.

So, that's my two cents...

[Dean Yelenik]

That's the way I had it as well - coupes are the even numbers, cabs the odd numbers.

[Enigma_Owl]

Ooops, sorry Dean! I was looking at your Nov. 8th posting, but I see now that you corrected the info in your follow-up posting a few days later.

Sorry I doubted ya! ;)

[Dean Yelenik]

I was thrown off momentarily by the other post referring to a 027 coupe, which John later explained was an error. I've never heard of a true U.S. market 3.5 stick. Non of the books or brochures show them. Everyone that I've seen in the U.S., maybe 8 or 10 of them, were euro cars, of which there were supposedly about 130 made. There was one on ebay a couple weeks ago. I know of one euro delivery stick shift ordered from a U.S. dealer. In those days the rules weren't quite as firm as they are now.

[John Vipond]

Back to the Data Plate. What do the BOTTOM row of numbers on the data plate on the data plate stand for?

John V.

[Dean Yelenik]

They must be option codes, or equipment codes of some sort. I would try to get the data card. I feel certain that you would find the numbers on there somewhere in one of the data fields. Or perhaps Tom knows.

[John Vipond]

Dean, the option numbers are on the top line. I have the Data Card but I'm unable to recognize any numbers of the length that appears necessary on the bottom line. I'm going to try to remember to look at my 280SL at my storage garage for clues.

[Dean Yelenik]

If it's not on the data card I'm out of ideas - except maybe a letter to MB Classics or whatever it is, in Stuttgart.

[John Vipond]

Tried that. They were no help.

[John Vipond]

I determined what the bottom line of the Data Plate was today. I checked my 280SL Data Plate and then compared it to the Data Card for that car. The first set of numbers on the bottom line is the Production number and the second set of numbers on the bottom line is the build number or what is sometimes called the Assembly Line number. The Production number on the Data Plate omits the first number on the Data Card.

[Drexl]

some remarks regarding the above thread:

"The first eight digits of the third line are the first eight digits of your VIN number. I'm not sure what the "7" is."

The last digit designates the sales market that ordered the car. 2 and 3 would be domestic (Germany), 4 to 9 export, where 7 = North America.

"I believe the 7th digit - 1 - is for gas engine."

No, the 1 is left-hand drive, a 2 would be right-hand drive.

"The Production number on the Data Plate omits the first number on the Data Card."

The first digit of the production number is the last digit of the year in which the number was assigned. The production number started annually at 0001. The production number of the first car assigned for 1970 would thus be 00001.

Klaus