does mercedes race in rally's

[kenny g]

Are there any mercedes rally cars racing in the usa or europe.

kenny graham

[danneu8]

i think they did for a while then audi came out with quattro and they went a different direction. probably doesnt help just some useless info.

[jfouse]

I've never seen a Mercedes in the SCCA (before they gave up stage rallying) or in Canadian events. Rally America took over stage rallying after the SCCA flaked out a couple of years back..........

Anyway, nothing in North America since the 1984 Alcan 5000 rally. Two guys from BC, Canada ran a very nice '84 300D sedan that had all kinds of trick stuff. Larger fuel tank, special Bilstein shocks, some weird springs, a whole bunch of driving lights, etc, etc. Being a turbo diesel they had the boost turned up, and maybe some other stuff. Anyway, it was very fast for a diesel car. They came in second, but would have won if it were not for a wrong turn that cost them 30+ seconds on the final section.
I worked controls on that rally and was most impressed with that car. I don't know where it is now, however.

Back in the 70's Mercedes had a couple of 450 SL series cars that were rally prepared, but they were only entered in selected events.

Other than that, no other Mercedes rally activity that I'm aware of.

jfouse

[JimVillers]

Kenny ..... Joe Alexander of Blacklick Ohio still has his 450SL SCCA rally car and took it to the Classic Adelaide 2004 Rally in Australia. He has the only rally car that I know about.

[ggoodman]

Not to pick nits, but Joe's car is a 450SLC. I'm not aware of any other rally cars but there was a C230 coupe running in the SPEED touring car series last year.

[jfouse]

That C230 coupe has been running the Speed World Challange Touring class for the past few years. Without much success as Acura, Mazda and BMW have heavy factory support.

jfouse

[ja17]

Hello Guys,

You hit a nerve here, so settle in for a little history;

Mercedes-Benz has a very rich rally history and tradition. The first automobile races were basically rallies (races run on public roads).

In 1894 Mercedes won the first automobile race (rally) from Paris to Rouen. In 1895 a Benz one the first American Automobile race (rally) from Chicago to Wakegan to Chicago. In the 1920s Mercedes SSKs were the victors in several Mille Miglias.

The 1954 Carrera Panamericana Rally the Mercede-Benz 300SL finished first and 2nd overall starting a very long and successful tradition of rally victories which lasted up into the seventies.
The 300SL, 300SLR, 190SL, 230SL, 219, 220SE, 220, 300SE, 280E, 280CE, 450SLC, 450SLC 5.0, 500SLC and even the humble 180d were frequent victors in various rally events. These conquests are too numerous to list here. " The Ultimate History of the Automobile" Mercedes Benz CD-ROM gives a nice easy to follow history of these rally events.

A few highlights are 1955 Mille Miglia, first and second overall Mercedes 300SLRs, first in class Mercedes 300SL, first in class Mercedes 180D. The 300SLRs and 300SLs chalked up scores and scores of rally victories during these years. A 190SL won first overall in the 1958 Hong Cong Rally. In The East African Rally a 219 ponton won first overall in 1958. A humble 180d frequently turned up in the winners circle in its class during these years also.

With the 1960s came the tough Mercedes sedan rallycars. The finback 220s, 220SEs and 300SEs, despite their size were nimble and tough enough to out perform and outlast the competition. Also too numerous to list, some highlights: In 1960 with 117 rally victories Mercedes Benz won the European Rally Championship. In 1961 Mercedes achieved 133 victories including the "American Rally Championship". 54 rally competition victories in 1962 were achieved by Mercedes and in 1963 a startling 225 victories were added to the record.

The late 60s were quiet times for Mercedes in competition, however I am sure some privateers had some undocumented successes during this era.

In the mid seventies Mercedes jumped back into factory sponsored rally competition in a big way. Factory prepared 450SLCs, 500SLCs and 280E sedans were the new weapons in the arsenal. Huge factory support crews with Unimogs and helicopters supported the efforts. The tough Mercedes Automobiles performed best in the tough marathon rallies. Some of these events like the London to Sydney Rally were over 20,000 miles of competition!! Some highlights were: 1977 London to Sydney Rally 34,000 km 1st and 2nd place Mercedes 280E, 1978 30,000 km Vuelta Alma America Del Sud Rally the first five places overall were Mercedes-Benz .......450SLC, 450SLC, 280E, 450SLC and 280 E repectively. The 1979 Bandama Rally saw the New Mercedes Benz 450SLC 5.0 finish the top four places overall! Andrew Cowan and Hannu Mikkola were to of the famous Mercedes Drivers during these times.
The heavy Mercedes rallycars eventually became less competative and became extinct. Mercedes decided to take challenges on other fronts like environmental issues during the fuel crisis year.

In recent years privateers have again taken up the "rally challenge" . Many FIA sanctioned long, tough and competitive rally events are held annually for classic and vintage competition cars. Competition events like The Acropolis, Carrera Panamericana, The Classic Adelaide, Targa New Foundland, and dozens more held annually. In many cases a Mercedes ponton sedan, a 220 SE Finback or a 450SLC are in the competition, privateers keeping the tradition and history alive!

In "The Around the World Rally" several years back, many vintage Mercedes participated. Amazingly a humble Mercedes 180d won his class!

[ja17]

Hello jfouse,

While we are on the subject, and I do not get the opportunity to live these glory days past very often so excuse a little bragging here.
In the 70s and early 80s, I built and campaigned America's only SCCA Pro Rally Car. It was a highly modified 1967 250 sedan and competed in the full blown modified "open class". Factory sponsored Rod Millen (Toyota) and John Buffum (Triumph TR8 later Audi Quatro) were two of the well known legends of the era that ran these events back then.

We ran events in the series like "Press on Regardless" FIA in the UP of Michigan in November, Sunriser 400 Forrest Rally (Oh), Sesquehanna Trail (Pa), Snowdrift (Mi) in December, 100 Acre Wood (Mi), etc. etc. The car was very tough and competitive. We had a third overall finish at the SCCA "Sunriser 400 Forrest Rally" in 1980.

The little sedan was a crowd favorite and it always received some interesting comments in "Autoweek" back then. Besides being unique it was usually the oldest car in the competition and had logged over 100,000 miles before it began its second life as a competition rally car! After about seven years of this abuse it was retired but the engine lives on in another MB to this day!

The navigators are the unsung heroes of this sport. They must blindly do their tedius work while all sorts of havoc and turmoil is going on all around. They must risk their own well being in the belief that the driver's ego will not obscure good judgement! Mark Dawley another MBCA (SC) member served me well as navigator in those days.

Rallying is not something easily cleansed from your system.

It is a shame the SCCA had to drop the Pro Rally Series. Too many fatalities made it nearly impossible for them to insure the events and growing population in the US made it difficult to close off hundreds of miles of public roads for competition.

[wbain]

Great info and pics Joe!

[Ferdman]

Joe, look like fun along with a rigorous workout. I'm sure you have many fond memories of those days and long to do it again.

[JimVillers]

Joe .... Interesting stories and wonderful pictures. I have heard that you will be taking your 450SLC to Greece this summer.

[VLayton]

Joe,

Thanks for sharing those fond aspects of days gone by. A part of me bears a sincere lust to have been there. It seems one of those circumstancial periods in history that is now unreplicable. Goes to show why living in the moment is important, I hate to think of what I can do today that will be uninsureable-by-precedent like this tomorrow. It inspires one to seize every MBCA and other like driving events that one can afford to experience, while they are still allowed...

Regards,

[JimVillers]

Vince .... The number of "High Performance Driver training" events have been growing over the years. There are now numerous organizations that help you "feel the speed". In fact, MBCA is one of the least serious track organizations. If you drive with NASA, they will give you a log book and training plan. Lots of opportunities to learn how to performance driving.

[ja17]

Hello Jim,

Yes we are looking at some events in Europe possibly The Classic Acropolis Rally in Greece. There are quite a few good FIA classic competitions these days. Here is a link for such events if anyone is interested. The 450SLC is ready!

http://www.classicrallies.com/calendar/

There is a wide range of different types of classic car competitions and events all over the world on this site.

[jfouse]

Joe,

Somehow we missed each other back in the 70's and 80's. I started in the SCCA Pro-Rally series in a 510, and "graduated" to a 240Z by '77. I ran rallies in western Canada (Mt Trials, Rocky, etc) as well as Olympus, and other events in WA, OR and Nevada. Seems so long ago. Back then I was co-founder of the infamous Alaska Rally Team with Satch Carlson, Doc Connel, Bob "Rusty" Link, among others. Had a fair amount of success with the 240Z, with numerous top ten and top five placings.

Guess you know that Gene Henderson and Tom Grimshaw passed away last year. We'll never see guys like that again..........

jfouse
Anchorage, Alaska

[ja17]

Hello jfouse,

"The Alaska Raklly Team" rings a bell. We never got further west than Missouri so our paths may may have never crossed. Pikes Peak was part of the SCCA Pro Rally schedule back then and I was planning on running it at one time but I rolled the Mercedes in a rally a few weeks before, :( and never made it.
Yes I remmember Tom Grimshaw and Gene Henderson well. It looks like the golden age of US performance rallying may be history. However there is renewed interest in Rallycrossing these days. This may lead to bigger and better things.

Being a Datsun 510 fan you may remember Eric Jones a local who is still vintage rallying a Datsun 510. Richard Paddock another local who organized the SCCA Sunriser Pro rallyies here in Ohio is still active is still putting on fast TSD rallies here. I was watching one of our former rallyists, Rod Millen and sons on Speed Channel Saturday leading the BAJA 1000!

Are you invoved in rallying these days?

[Inspector]

Here is a bit more on the MB SLC rally cars, posted on the Australian MB board.

http://www.mbcnsw.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,186.msg7166.html#new


Got to hand it to Greg, he sure is a mine of information.

Regards, Inspector

[jfouse]

Joe,

I'm pretty much out of it these days. First, being just about six days older than baseball, I figure it's best left to the guys who can still see and have reflexes quicker than your average sloth. Second, living in Alaska has always made it difficult. Logistics is the major problem.

From time-to-time I go down (and ship my WRX built to GpN specs) and run "0" car on events like Mt Trials and Pacific Forest. That's fun. Drive in a highly anti-social manner and not worry about beating anyone.

I've got a stack of Speedline 2118 15x7 gravel wheels, Silverstone gravel tires, DMS struts (garbage, by the way), Hella Motorsport 4000 HID driving lamps, Timewise 797A rally computer, and all kinds of other rally-related stuff in the garage. My E430 4Matic and 240D must sit there wondering what all that stuff is for, and giving the WRX the hairy eyeball..........

Yes, I remember/know Eric Jones. He must be almost as old as me by now! Glad to hear he's still having a good time.

Satch Carlson, who used to write a column for AUTOWEEK, would write about the Alaska Rally Team back in the 70's and early 80's.

I follow the WRC, and see that Loeb is leading the Monte Carlo as I write this....

jfouse

[ja17]

Hello jfouse,


Speaking of WRC (World Rally Championship) it's such a shame Speed Channel is not even covering the events this year. I send them a email about once a month asking for more rally coverage. I guess rallying in the US is similar to Soccer, extremely popular everwhere else in the world!

I must admit I get tempted to add a WRX to the fleet. But the wife keeps these urges under control. I met some members of the WRX factory rally team at a MBCA driving event at Beaver Run Race Coarse a few years back. The MBCA organizers convinced them to be our driving instructors! They just happened to be at Beaver Run doing testing on the new 3000 WRX. They all aspired to come to the US and run the SCCA series back then.

You should look in to doing some vintage rally events. Most are on paved roads so you do not automatically destroy the car. The schedule is a little less rigorous with time to sleep and eat between days of rallying. The competitors and cars are very intense. It is quite suited for young or "vintage drivers" like ourselves! :-)

[Maxbumpo]

Joe,

Terrific pictures and post! 'Jump' is my favorite - I think it will become my screen background.

I once skied in a cross country ski race in the UP, and there were several wrecked cars, farrrrrrr out in the woods, that piqued my curiousity. Why would such a car be all crumpled and rolled down in that deep ravine so far from any road? I found out they were left over from the POR races...

[Maxbumpo]

"Jump" is now the desktop background for my PC, and it looks great. Thanks again for the terrific pictures.

[jfouse]

Joe,

I ran a fast TSD a number of years ago in my '78 240D (4-spd) sedan. The poor thing is so slow I had to flog it for all it was worth just to come close to the averages. Think we finished pretty far down the order, with 99% of our points were for being late. Maybe we were something like 23rd out of field of 22 cars. Now, that's slow!

Have not seen much on vintage stage rallying. Someone must be keeping it a secret.

Rallying in Alaska is pre-stone age. Not worth fooling with. The British Columbia, Canada has what must be about the best series in North America. Go to rallybc.com.

It would be super cool to run a well prepared Mercedes in a rally. At the very least one would be comfortable.

I highly recommend the Alcan 5000 Rally. Jerry Hines of Kirkland, WA puts it on every year. The winter Alcan is NOT for the faint of heart. The next winter event is Feb 08. Go to alcan5000.com. I've worked and run that event several times. It's well worth the time and effort. Any rally guy worth his/her salt should run that event at least once. Buffum/Grimshaw won the '85 Alcan in a factory Audi, and came back the following year and had problems related to falling off the road. They finished, however. Gene Henderson won it a couple of times. I won the non-equipped class on the 2000 Winter Alcan in a factory Subaru. Anyway, it's a great event.

On the '84 Alcan 5000 Rally (first year of the event) a couple of Canadians ran a well prepared Mercedes 300 turbo diesel sedan, led most of the rally, but missed a turn late on the final day and finished 2nd. The co-driver, Dennis Wende of Couquitlam, BC, was my co-driver 1994-2001 in the BC series. We won the championship seven times in eight seasons. Dennis is an EXCELLENT co-driver/navigator.

jfouse

[ja17]

Hello Maxbumpo,

Glad you like the pics. Yes the POR rallies were brutal, I ran two of them. They were two days and nights in the Michigan UP in November. If your car did not need repaired, you could get about four hours of sleep between the two days.


Typically about eighty cars would start and less than twenty would finish. The rest broke or crashed.




jfouse,

Very impressive record! It would be fun to see you do an event in a well equiped Mercedes!

WRC rallying is beyound the economic reach of all but a few so Vintage is becomming popular for the week-end racers.

As far as the vintage stage rallies, they have become very popular in the last few years. They usually have two or three events in one. There is the "competition class" which is a stage rally. There is also a "touring class" or two which are fast drives but no competition. The touring class events usually follow the competition.

At "The Classic Adelaide Rally " in Australia the event was about 800 miles long with about 200 stage miles on paved roads closed to the public. Mountains, valleys, along the ocean and through the eucaliptus forests the route ran for four days. About 300 pre 1985 cars participated. 130 cars ran in the stage competition class with more than 100,000 spectators turning out to watch the event.

Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche sent down priceless vintage cars from their museums to run in the touring class with drivers like Sterling Moss, Bobby Rahal and other famous drivers at the controls in recent years.

The competition class is intense with many semi-retired pro racers involved in very special cars. Everything from real GT40s to Morgan V8s ran competition. Big block Mustangs and Holdens were also quite popular competition cars at the event.