What makes a good Mercedes Service Shop

[AnthroProfessor]

I am a very meticulous Mercedes owner and in search of a shop that can meet the needs of my car. The previous shop I attended got too big, too impersonal, sloppy, and bad quality control. It was much better when the owner was doing the repairs, but he does not work on the cars anymore. I need a new shop.

Things to look for:

1. They must know what they are doing and not guess

2. If nothing is wrong with what the customer suspects, do not charge the customer

3. Explain other things the car needs. Do not just fix the brakes and ignore the fact that the radiator leaks and the engine has a seal leak. Be thorough!

4. Back up your work and do not give the customer a hard time. If a tranny is overhauled and the customer complains about it because it does not work right. Fix it once. If problem persists, give the customer full refund (I am tired of games like this that keep dragging on). The same goes with all those complex repair jobs such as engine, A/C, and electrical stuff.

5. Write a detailed invoice so the customer can collect service records. This is Very important.

6. Only use factory parts. None of that after market stuff. I don't care if its a Mann oil filter, if it does not have that mercedes star on it, its not genuine. Case closed. I see the dealer also use after market parts--really disgusting.

[bill streep]

What's your deal with parts? OEM parts - WITHOUT the star - can be as much as 25% of the dealer price (that's a 75% discount). If the MANUFACTURER that makes them for MB sells the SAME item, why would you care? As long as the shop isn't charging you for the star, why would you not accept an OEM part?

Here's an example. Beru makes ignition coils FOR BMW for our BMWs. From the dealer, they are $185 each. I can get them from my indy for $65 each. They are still made by Beru, with the SAME Beru part number on them. \

Sorry, it just seems silly NOT to take advantage of it. As you noted, MB dealerships are starting to do the same... Randy, my indy, says that one of the local dealerships is a VERY good customer of his...

[AnthroProfessor]

I have nothing against some of the OEM parts per say....

In the past, the dealer kept giving them to me and charging the same as the MBZ one without indicating or telling me about it. I am now more educated though.

I like Mercedes parts because it preserves the authenticity of the car.


I understand your point. I have never seen OEM parts priced much lower than the Mercedes part. I mean, I get Mercedes parts for wholesale anyway, so it does end up cheaper for me.

I never want to use OEM parts for something as important as a body panel, engine, tranny and the like (authenticity really suffers then). If it was something not so permanent on the car like an air filter, I guess I can live with it and enjoy saving money, but the Mercedes part has always come out cheaper for me.

I guess a lot of the OEM sales people I keep running across are crooks for charging so much. I don't know.



Here is what I don't want to happen. A mechanic telling me its Mercedes, when in reality, its OEM. I hate misrepresentations!!! If a mechanic advised me to go with OEM brake calipers since I could save $200, I probably would be open minded and listen to him as long as he was up front about it and notes it on the invoice.

[BuyMBparts]

I have nothing against some of the OEM parts per say....

In the past, the dealer kept giving them to me and charging the same as the MBZ one without indicating or telling me about it. I am now more educated though.

I like Mercedes parts because it preserves the authenticity of the car.


I understand your point. I have never seen OEM parts priced much lower than the Mercedes part. I mean, I get Mercedes parts for wholesale anyway, so it does end up cheaper for me.

I never want to use OEM parts for something as important as a body panel, engine, tranny and the like (authenticity really suffers then). If it was something not so permanent on the car like an air filter, I guess I can live with it and enjoy saving money, but the Mercedes part has always come out cheaper for me.

I guess a lot of the OEM sales people I keep running across are crooks for charging so much. I don't know.



Here is what I don't want to happen. A mechanic telling me its Mercedes, when in reality, its OEM. I hate misrepresentations!!! If a mechanic advised me to go with OEM brake calipers since I could save $200, I probably would be open minded and listen to him as long as he was up front about it and notes it on the invoice.


I am not sure where you have priced OEM parts lately. And this is not about OEM Quality versus Genuine MB quality. But I can certainly tell you that the OEM parts that I have been selling for more than 31 years are generally priced BELOW dealer cost, which is a minimum of 25% below wholesale. I hear what you are saying about sheet metal, and engine hard parts, but oil filters? brake pads? Bosch ignition parts? Bilstein or Sachs products?

[AnthroProfessor]

non-Mercedes brake pads squeal even if its OEM. Besides, I get the Mercedes pads cheaper than the OEM and no squeal to boot. I paid $50 for all four brake pads (fornt and rear).

I live in the southern California area where parts dealers try and pass off the OEM as genuine Mercedes and charge accordingly. This happened to me too many times so I gave up and just started buying wholesale at the dealer. I am much happier this way and original parts for a 123 do not cost all that much compared to other import cars.

If you want to sell me Brake calipers for 25% less than dealer wholesale, I will consider it when the time comes, but please understand that I was just sick and tired of getting ripped off in the past by various peoples passing this stuff off as genuine and did not want to be anyone's fool.

One time for my 1981 300D, I was having trouble with the calipers. It is not wise to just change one. One day at the junk yard, I saw a nice Mercedes station wagon which honestly should not have been at a pick ur parts. I noticed it had near new front brake calipers. They were OEM, but bought them both for $20. I installed them in my car and it has been great ever since.

In sum, my main gripe about OEM is that I don't want to pay the same as MB original and I would appreciate it if my mechanic would tell me if he is using OEM or MB on the invoice and charge me accordingly. Its about ethics more than anything.

Now lets get on with more important issues.

[AnthroProfessor]

Another requirement of a good Mercedes Shop is that the mechanic should have good "shop hygiene" (for lack of a better term). For example, when touching the master cylinder, taking it apart and replacing it, it is hard not to get brake fluid on the hands and there is potential for dripping. I want my mechanic to be careful not to drip it on the finish and not touch any other area of the car until brake fluid residue is gone either by washing hands or changing gloves.

The same goes when changing fuel lines or fuel filters. Use rags or cloth to insure drips don't go on the paint. Same precaution with radiator fluid.

Whether its diesel, brake fluid, or coolant, it will corrode the paint and expose the metal and then rust sets in. I saw the dealer have their mechanics use a special leather overlay when working under the hood. That is good! It protects the finish.


If a car does not run and needs pushing, do not push on the trunk. The sheet metal bends in. Push on the bumper, its safer for the car.


When hoisting a car with a lift, make sure it is lifting the car in the right spots. And make sure there is no metal to metal contact. The lift should have heavy rubber or at least wood. I don't like the underside of the car damaged.

Tow trucks need to learn Mercedes manners too. They should stop putting hooks on the tie bars. That causes them to bend. Use belts.

[Alex]

Andre,

Would you kindly explain what you mean by "just started buying wholesale at the dealer."

How does one buy genuine M-B parts wholesale at the dealer? The parts departments of the M-B dealers I buy from sell M-B parts at retail prices, with some discounts, sometimes.

The parts departments of M-B dealers sell to independent mechanics at still lower prices. Are the prices mechanics pay at the M-B dealer what you consider wholesale prices?

[AnthroProfessor]

Alex,

You have a good question!

The Mercedes dealer has two prices in separate departments: Retail and Wholesale. I am not sure if there is an "ultra wholesale" to independent mechanics that order in large bulks. Anyway, I digress. If you can find a good mechanic friend with a shop, they can get that wholesale price for you. The wholesale prices vary anywhere between 10% to 33%, sometimes better than that. It all depends on the part. I never saw any consistent percentage used in marking down the retail, but wholesale is always cheaper. It really makes a difference when you want a factory rebuilt engine, remanufactured transmission, new differential, new fuel injector pump, etc. That's when you really notice the savings.

So, I guess one needs connections, but that is true anywhere in life.

[Sokoloff]

Duvall, Caliber, Park Place and several other dealers sell to you at wholesale. The Mercedes price list typically shows three columns of prices, MSRP, wholesale and dealer cost. There is usually about a 20% difference between each of them. Many dealers set their prices at MSRP plus a percentage, often a ridiculous percentage. Those dealers I avoid.

Len

[BuyMBparts]

Duvall, Caliber, Park Place and several other dealers sell to you at wholesale. The Mercedes price list typically shows three columns of prices, MSRP, wholesale and dealer cost. There is usually about a 20% difference between each of them. Many dealers set their prices at MSRP plus a percentage, often a ridiculous percentage. Those dealers I avoid.

Len


Actually Len, Caliber has gone a little above wholesale now, Duvall is 5% below wholesale and I don't know about Park Place. Mercedes has gone wild on shipping charges so you really have to ask all these guys what the freight is going to be. We buy over $100,000 a month from Mercedes and the the freight charges each time are ridiculous. But there is just no other choice on so many items.

[VLayton]

If I may share an observation or two...

Andre, you have much higher than normal standards. I desire to, but very well may not meet them myself. Ironically, I often get chidded for by my own clients for being too particular (that costs money) and often feel reined in by the client's authorizations to do what I feel compelled to do to the car. I get mixed feelings about proposing add-ons. Partly I don't want to give an add-on happy perception. Some simply don't want to hear what else they should do, only what is minimally required for them to operate the car, otherwise I'm just "trying to take more of their money." Others can have pre-notions about what they expect me to tell them, without making it clear to me that's what they are seeking. One or two has even gotten upset about this. My point is learning to cope and give good service to all types of clients has taken thought and effort. I think the winning angle for me has been flat out asking them about the willingness to spend money on the car and what level or condition they hope/expect to retain/achieve. I try to best to explain details as necessary or desired by them. It's not hard to get a full explaination by asking, but I try not to burden them beyond their tolerance to hear it.

I started because I couldn't find satisfaction to meet my desires either. It was clear to me what I wanted, and what I could do about if it were me. I've found 90% of this business is talk and speculation, and it is still a little surprising sometimes when I hear "Here's money, go ahead" after the consultation. I guess I've grown to never expect anything until it happens. I imagine this a big reason some places get complacent in their salesmanship. Then when a serious customer comes in, they don't get serious treatment and thus annoyance like yours ensues.

Most are concerned with low cost, then value, then part quality. Then expect reliability and warranty. I'm the one behind the scenes making sure the parts I use are ones I believe worthy of the the reputation I want to keep. I am insistant on what I use, and then simply try to make that a reasonable cost. If you're looking to cut corners, I'm not your guy, but rather a place to get considerations for quality work for less than is usually found.

To further assist communications, I've created several options on the service authorization form to excentuate individual client's preferences in how they want their service. I have separate sections for the original request, necessary add-ons (discovered mid service), a section for client add-ons, and another for suggestions which I find and can then be approved or not. (Note, some cars have way more problems than can be thoughly addressed each little service, and the owner doesn't need to be reminded of them) I provide several pre-set levels of overage permissions as well. I could post a copy if anyone would like to see it.

To keep costs competative and ensure they are going into the car on the owner's budget, I utilize OEM parts extensively. I work hard to track down, ensure and then insist on the same suppliers MB uses. This allows me to beat MSRP sometimes with the trust I'm using a proper part. If there isn't a suitible OEM part availiable, I resort, or rather, "default" my sourcing to the dealer. I've even found occassions when more original equipment is ONLY availible in the aftermarket as the dealer part supplied has been superceeded. Case in point, fuel hose clamps. I want the screw-type, not the spring type used on newer MBs. And of course some original parts are not longer availible other than NOS (new old stock). I also don't always get the best prices either, and of course, have to eat shipping costs as well.

Of course, in dedication to service, all you have to say is "I insist everything you use for my car comes in a dealer box if at all possible and at any required cost" and I'll make that happen, and of course adjust the costs as needed.

If you're hiring a shop, I think it's only fair to expect to pay at least MSRP for parts. After all, they take on the warranty and responsibility for it's longevety.

40% markup isn't all that much in this industry. Midas will sell you a $15 generic-made-in-China rear rotor and mark it up 600% or more. When they do a front rotor, they don't change the 14 bolts of principle hardware the MB manual advises. For these reasons I cannot beat their job price. If they used my part standards, they could not beat mine. (I once got a front shock quote for research purposes- about $200 I think. I then asked if they were Bilsteins, and they said no it was a house shock. So I asked would they put in Bilsteins if I insisted and they replied "hey, it's your money" - just a small illustration they have little regard for ideal results, they basically sling parts and service for money) Clear fact and discretion is needed to measure the value of the service price.

I don't mean to overly self-endorsing, but I'm gaining confidence my approach to being a specialist is what serious long term loving owners are/have been seeking. I wanted to express someone is doing their best to respond and serve as such. It's not easy, but honestly so far more successful than conventional business wisdom would ditate. My facility is kind of an overcongested fledgling hole in the wall, and unfourtuantely I realize this is a counter-indicative impression to my efforts to work clean, but I have to work with what I have. (I have several practices for keeping fluids off things during service, but my unpainted and fluid-stained floor wouldn't agree they always work completely- but I try as results of sloppy work are an eyesore)

Good luck in your quest for satisfactory service out there. I'm glad you as an owner have the willingnes to see your cars get good care. :)

Now off topic, I'm at odds with this thread, forum-wise.

I know you're new here but we're pretty conservative with sticky threads. This is an important subject but I'm not sure it should be sticky. It also doesn't conform to the thread system of the Recommeded Shop forum in it's current design, and I feel maybe it should be in the General discussion forum anyway. I bring it up as forum moderator but as a member's forum I don't want to be a dictator about it. What's opinion on that?

[AnthroProfessor]

About this thread: Skip suggested this become a sticky in this section.


Vince, I appreciate your response and insights. I might of come across a bit harsh and critical in my posts here, but I mean them in the spirit of great concern over taking care of these fine cars with the respect they deserve.

I actually had a mechanic for 10 years that did all I ever wanted out of a technician. He only used MB parts, charged reasonable rates for the parts even if it might have been a little over retail. I never had a problem with his prices. His labor rate was much cheaper than the dealer and never had a problem with it. I gave him carte blanche on my car. Sometimes he was surprised at what I authorized and how quickly. But I did this because I could not do it myself and it was better for the car. He would always make suggestions on my car for my own sake. For example, he once told me that I needed a new brake booster because of a vacuum leak. He advised I get an original one from the wrecking yard because they do not fail at a considerable rate. He did not insist I get it done at his shop although he was open to any job I gave him. I replaced the booster myself because that was within my limits and my tech knew that. He did test for the vacuum leak after installing it to say it was all OK. He did not nickel and dime me. Often times these old cars are missing washers, bolts screws, need a tweek here and there. That was all done during a regular service. He was conscientious over how much my repair bill would be and advised on occasion to wait on this work if it was not urgent. One time when he could not figure out a short circuit problem in my car even after spending a lot of time on it, he would tell that all systems check out fine and that my problem might have been an improper fuse (I had changed the fuse box before giving the car to him so I might have inadvertently fixed the problem without knowing it). He did not charge me for it stating that he just does not feel it right since he did not fix anything and he knew I changed the fuse box from the very beginning and decided to look at it anyway---the system was indeed trouble free afterward. He jokingly stated that he was glad I changed the fuse box and not him because it was very uncomfortable and time consuming. He was always careful about car hygiene making sure no fluids spilled on the paint by using the right covers and hoisted the car with heavy rubber padding or wood. He always gave the car back to you washed and clean!!


So, whatever happened to this tech? He is still around. The problem is that his service facility got too big, hired a lot of other people and stopped working on cars himself. I continued to go there, but then noticed the poor quality of the repairs, the nickel and diming and the sloppines. I once had my car there because the alternator squealed. One tech at the facility was looking at it and saw it was a loose belt. However, he missed the fact my voltage regulator was about to fall off the alternator. I was stranded the next day! How could someone working on an alternator miss this??? There were many things that were missed and I was tired of constantly going back for them to do things right. I really wanted to be loyal but this is not the place it used to be.


I spent anywhere from $300 to $2500 a year on my 1981 300D depending on what it needed. Obviously, getting a tranny or head job done is something once in a lifetime sort of thing so some years look disproportionate. I would say a good $600 is needed to keep these cars in tip top shape and that is assuming the owner of the car does a lot of the repairs himself like filter changes, brakes, changing peripheral parts of the engine, etc. I learn to do more things each year and the expense has come down a lot. So, I am getting more and more cost effective. I feel I am ready to do my own valve job if I had a proper garage (I live in an apartement, so I cannot do a major job like that right now). My expenses are getting to the point that if I owned any other car new or used, I would not save any more money as I am now. Its hard to believe to some people that know my income yet see me with that 1985 silver shiny Mercedes (they have no clue its over 20 years old because it looks new and has a lot of gadgets).

I will never learn to do everything myself, but that's OK since getting serviced for the difficult jobs requiring special tools is going to be rare. Besides, I like to document my car as much as possible so people see the total mileage climb. I cannot believe how well my 1985 300D performs at 260K. I think its time I go to the dealer to get that badge. My 1981 is at 233K, but its dead right now. It needs a new tranny. I am thinking about factory remanufactured, accident car exchange, or finding a mechanic that can do it using MB parts only.

[VLayton]

About this thread: Skip suggested this become a sticky in this section


Good enough for me. :)

[Grey Ghost]

I do feel this thread is appropriate as a 'sticky' since it speaks to an issue central to the quest for Recommended Shops.

Don't forget that Andre is (ostensibly) an Anthropology Professor, so he's committed to preserving his car in its ORIGINAL condition.

Ideally, that's the way I would treat the Grey Ghost, but that's a VERY expensive commitment to make.

As far as I can tell, the only cost-efficient way to execute that mandate is to do one's own work (which of course involves a substantial investment in tools and facilities).

Of course, once you've made this commitment and truly have your MB in cherry, original condition, you may not want to use it as your daily driver any longer!

[Johnson Chan]

I am with Andre on the whole genuine parts issue. If you look at my car, the battery, belts, filters, brake pads, etc. is genuine Benz and has the "Mercedes Star" on them.

- I get parts at wholesale so its sometimes cheaper, same price, or maybe slightly more. It all averages out in the end. I dont mind spending a little more and getting Genuine stuff, thats just the way I am.

- By getting genuine stuff, you have more protection and peace of mind. Nothing wrong with that if you can afford it or willing to spend it.

- By protection i mean, if i remember correctly, Tom Hansen probably has the reference/article number for it (he gave it to me before but I misplaced it), but Genuine dealer parts are warranty for 1 yr, if you experience a breakdown anywhere in the county, you can go to the local benz dealer and get an exchange for free. This was a few years ago, so I dont know if the rules have changed. I never expereinced a breakdown out of state (knock on wood), but it is a good protection to have if you frequently travel far distances from home.

- when you go to a concours carshow and look at cars, its nice to see all genuine Benz stuff. Imagine seeing a Gullwing with AC delco belts, Everstart battery, etc. etc. It just looks and feels more "proper" if there is a Benz star on it.

Now there are exceptions to this... On my Rolls Royce, when I buy oil filters, they come in a Bentley/RR box, BUT the filters themselves say Crossland on them and have NO stamps, or indications they were modified by RR. In that case, I could picture myself going direct to Crossland for the filters. Same thing for the SU carberater diaphrams/jets. They are made by SU in england and put in a RR box. Same thing for the fuel pump, etc. etc.

Other items are Rolls Royce specific. For example, the fan belts have "Rolls Royce" and the part number printed on them. The radiator hoses have RR stamped on them and the part number and the date of manufacture. I get genuine RR parts wholesale, so sometimes its cheaper than buying aftermarket and paying S/H, etc. Plus I get it immediately or the next day wheras with mail order, its usually 5-7 days.

Is your goal to be a "purist" or is your goal to keep "running costs low"? I guess for Andre and I, its to be purists, to each his own...

[Don350SDL]

If you're hiring a shop, I think it's only fair to expect to pay at least MSRP for parts. After all, they take on the warranty and responsibility for it's longevety.
Actually, if you buy an MB part from a dealer, it comes with a warranty that includes replacement labor. Which OEM provides that kind of warranty? Also, it completely relieves the shop of warranty liability.

But, I digress.

I agree with Andre's desires for a workshop, but I simply cannot afford to pay for that kind of shop. Instead, I take it to the guy who will accept cash for a job, has never provided me with a repair order or any evidence that the car was worked on, has a less than tidy shop (but does use proper covers, etc). Once it gets home, I am the one who does the quality checks, pokes around to find what needs attention, and so on.

The three dealers near enough to call local ALL have excellent shops, and if you tell them what you expect (as Andre mentioned) they will do what they can to meet those expectations. (If your expectations are low - just fix it and let me go - they'll meet those, too...). There's even an indy nearby that is that good - but they all charge over $100 per hour plus MSRP on genuine MB parts.

I do what I can, sublet out to the cheap guy what i can check, and bring the real important stuff to the dealer.
=======

Regarding wholesale price: As with any retail store, they can charge whatever they like. I have a very good relationship with my dealer, and so get a fantastic price. They know that I work hard to keep their effort low, and am not a picky or problem customer. When there's a crowd in the parts room I wait until everyone else is gone. I look up my own parts. I pay in cash, so they don't incur credit card fees. I'm also a nice guy, sometimes bringing in a bag of rolls from the local bakery, or 3 cups of coffee for the counter guys, or some kind of bling I came across (like the small umbrellas I had...). They know me, my car, I know them -- it's called building a relationship.

Oh, even the sales guys know me - I certainly have sent them enough customers over the past five years.

Don

[pch2021]

one thing you guys forgot- a good MB mechanic actually drives a Mercedes Benz as well.

I was encouraged by Andre's statements , as this is the kind of service I strive to provide my customers.
If they want an item in an MB box, my supplier will get it at a reasonable, wholesale cost. I find that most MB shops are large and impersonal, and no focus is placed on the fit and finish ofwork- it's jsut about money.

Anyhow, Shops like Vince's [or mine, for that matter] are rare and exceptional. I hope the MB world sees more of these in the future, so that MB owners like Andre can actually get their cars serviced well.

[Cal Learner]

Interesting thread. The expectations of Andre, the professor, make sense to me b/c I generally share them. Like him, I don't usually have a problem paying MB prices for MB parts, but take exception when I'm charged off the MB price list for an OEM part. Technically that may not be "bait and switch" but it comes close IMO. Anyway, that's a parts issue and some folks are going to feel strongly about it one way or the other. That's what makes a horse race.

What really interested me about this thread is Vince's post #11, b/c it puts into words what too many demanding consumers must feel is missing from their mechanic shops. For ever, it's mystified me why a family-owned small business independent shop wouldn't do a better job of understanding the expectations game. I happen to own a 20+ year old 124 that, by everyone's reckoning, is in pristine condition. I've owned it since new and lavished attention on it since the day I drove it off the dealer's lot. Not only cosmetic attention (it gets full waxing about 6 times a year), but mechanical as well (it's in the shop for all regular maintenance and at the first indication that it needs anything at all). The result is, that the car can sit in the middle of brand new MBs at the dealership while I'm in picking up some parts, and when I return, it's my car that the dealership employees are standing around admiring. As an enthusiast, I appreciate that recognition. But on too many occasions when I've had to seek out a new indy, no one seemed to take any notice of the fact that the condition of the car speaks volumes about its owner's expectations. There's a reason why the car looks like it does, and it has everything to do with the fact that I'm particular about its care. Why, then, would the shop owner imagine that it'd be OK with me to return the car with greasy fingerprints all over the finish and even on the upholstery; work that's done sloppily or maybe overlooked altogether; sweaty bodies leaving sweaty marks on the seats because they weren't covered? Why? Because being observant about the countless little signals just doesn't figure in.

I know from my own experience that much goes into running a small business, and it doesn't always go according to plan, despite one's best efforts. But I cannot understand when the shop seemingly makes no attempt at quality control before giving their work back to the owners and letting them find out what mistakes, oversights and ineptitudes there are. For the "price" of about a 5 minute walk-around with the assigned technician, the shop owner (or shop manager) would spot greasy fingerprints, would notice items on the work order which had not been completed, might even notice that the oil filler cap had not been replaced after an oil change, as has happened to me (fortunately it wasn't a missing drain plug). For another 5 minutes, the shop owner might even take the additional step of reviewing every item on the work order with the car owner upon delivery, to inspire that added bit of confidence in the thoroughness and quality of the shop's work. Indy shops apparently don't know what the SBA statistics for small business failures are, that they can so readily ignore the basics of business that will dictate whether the consumer views the transaction favorably or not. That's the rub from where I sit, and judging by the many posts on this and other forums about where to find good garages, it appears that it's bigger than just me. So...

Attention shop owners: Of course we want to pay only a fair price for your work, not an inflated price. Of course we want the work done competently. But some of us would also like the reassurance that you and your employees care as much about our cars as we do, which shouldn't be too outlandish a notion where Mercedes-Benz owners are involved (we're not driving Kias, after all). I'm sure it's tough finding only excellent mechanics to hire, those who are true craftsmen and enthusiasts like your clients. So much more's the reason for you, the shop owner, to address (and continually reinforce) attitude in your staff training, and to review the technicians' completed work item-by-item before pulling the car out of the bay and returning it to the owner. If you can't do that little in your own business self-interest, you can't expect us to imagine that the work was done efficiently and competently. It just defies belief. Thanks, Vince, for seeming to recognize the fundamentals that escape so many others.

[maryjcl]

Great post Cal. I've often felt, and experience, the same thing myself. The point about the condition of the car being a clue to the owner's expectations is key, and so often overlooked. It's so common-sensical too. It amazes me people don't get it.

One note about parts: I too try to buy Mercedes parts from the dealer, with the MBCA discount. The reason I do this, versus buying parts that are OEM, is two reasons really:

1. The shipping charges from the OEM supplier often make the price very close, especially if you are getting an MBCA discount from your dealer. Why not just get the original if there is a small difference in price?

2. It may not always be the case, but I have read, and experienced (unfortunately) cases where OEM parts are seconds that the manufacturer rejects, or that otherwise don't meet the same specs. As a consumer, it is difficult to know and the "star" on the part is to me a guarantee that the part is up to Mercedes standards. Of course, while this may be the case a relatively small percentage of the time, I am very particular about my cars, and I don't want a part defect screwing up what might be a labor intensive job, requiring it to be done twice. Thus, I'd rather just get the original MB part and be done with it. It's the same rationale that motivates me to buy Michelins -- you can rest assured that there won't be any stories, issues, or other nonsense. Mount them up and you are done for many more miles. They might be a few bucks more, but my time and the potential aggravation avoided is worth far more to me.

Raymond Lombardo
Greater Washington Section

[Alex]

Interesting thread.
No one seemed to take any notice of the fact that the condition of the car speaks volumes about its owner's expectations.

I've never before seen this truism put so clearly. Bravo!

The condition of the car is obvious. People can't help noticing. But the connection to expectations is not made.

I recently noticed that the glove compartment on my CL500 was crooked and loose. One screw that attaches it to the dashboard was missing and the other was loose. After emtying the compartment, I found the screw laying in the rear. I put it back in, tightened them both and all is well.

But when I think that this happened a year ago-the last time I had the car at the dealer-when the dealer put in the Satellite Radio system, it reminds me once again, as if a reminder is needed, how I dread going there.

Let's say a scratched up and dirty car is brought in to a dealer for installation of a Satellite Radio. Wouldn't that owner expect that his car be returned in completely assembled condition, even if unclean? Isn't this a reasonable expectation of every car owner?

So the sloppy dealer problem goes beyond fussy owner' expectations. It's about not taking care of business. Owners of ordinary cars take their chances at the dealer. Fussy owners with prized cars ought to stay away from dealers who have demonstrated poor performance on details.

A new indie just opened shop within walking distance from me. He says he has the computer interface needed for up to 2008 models, and received specific training, at his former M-B dealer job, on my model car. I think I'll give him a try on the transmission glitch mentioned elsewhere.