There must be a better way...

[Wyle E. Coyote]

I've got a question about running WVO. I've checked out the greasecar website and their kit for my car. But the asking price is a bit steep for my budget at the current time. So,... is there any way of doing this for a more reasonable cost?

Thanks! :)

[VLayton]

I've got a question about running WVO. I've checked out the greasecar website and their kit for my car. But the asking price is a bit steep for my budget at the current time. So,... is there any way of doing this for a more reasonable cost?

Thanks! :)


Sure! Just pour the waste oil in the fuel tank. Others do, and I'll bet you'll get the same results either way.

Have you tired Acme's Veg Oil Conversion Kit? Beep Beep!! :D

[Don350SDL]

I think Vince means "if the veg oil is liquid, you can filter out the bits and pour it right into the tank". It'll burn just fine.

Me, personally, I'd never do it, but that's just me.

The Greascar and other WVO schemes are all one way or another to get the usualy fryolator oil (which is partially hydrogenated, meaning nearly solid like butter at room temperature) to become a liquid so it'll flow. Greascar starts the car on Diesel, then once the engine heat melts the fat, burns that instead. Other methods dehydrogenate the fat using chemicals (such as lye, or NaOH), still others use one kind of snake oil or another. Point is, it's gotta be a liquid to flow.

That's the easier way.

Now, I have heard of people mixing WVO with diesel, but can't say how well it'll work. Get a liter of WVO from the local diner or fast-food place - they'll be happy to part with it, sicne they pay to dispose of it - and do some experiments.

Don

[John E]

a typical WVO conversion specifically does NOT use hydrogenated oils.

And typically one doesn't need to liquify anything. Vegetable oil is a liquid, even at extremely cold temperatures it remains a liquid. The conversion methods use heat simply to thin the vegetable oil to the same approximate viscosity of diesel fuel. Not to melt it. If anyone is using hydrogenated oil or god forbid, liquid shortening, they're not using the proper ingredients for a waste vegetable fueled vehicle.

I use non-hydrogenated vegetable oil in a 1985 300TD that has been converted to run on vegetable oil. The folks who did the conversion, Lovecraft Biofuels, specifically warn against using hydrogenated oils. This conversion also allows me to use regular and bio-diesel fuel if needed.

Non-hydrogenated oils are readily available new and it's easy enough to find out if a potential waste oil source is using them by either asking or just looking at the box that the oil came in.

As for de-hydrogenating, not sure if that's even a word.

There are some steps used in the process of making bio-diesel that might include removing or modifying whatever was used to hydrogenate the oil but not being a bio-diesel maker, I'm not familiar with the specifics.

There is a difference between bio-diesel and WVO, major differences in fact. Using WVO is a vastly simpler process.

There are no really cheap conversion kits available that I'm familiar with. There are a few reasonably priced ones. I had the conversion on my 300TD done at the Lovecraft shop as it is close by. There's always the complete do-it yourself method but I imagine that by the time you got something working you'll have spent as much as a conversion kit.



John Emmons

[kipper]

Iam in the middle of my second conversion to run straight wvo. My first was on a 98 Vw and I bought a kit from Grease Car, it worked well, but is very easy if you have a bit of skill and a little bit of time to find parts and install them . Buy the book From Fryer to Fuel tank By Joshua Tickell and it goes over all you need to know. The hardest thing Ive had to do is get a heated tank for the cooking oil. I should be done my 87 300sdl in about a month .
Kipp :rolleyes:

[VLayton]

There is a difference between bio-diesel and WVO, major differences in fact. Using WVO is a vastly simpler process.


I agree with the first sentance, but not the second.

Biodiesel is the easiest alternative fuel, it just comes out of a pump at a commercial station like diesel.

Fuel types and terms:

There is WVO (with the bits filtered out) or SVO- both of which aid from heating it.

Then there is homemade "biodiesel" which is "brewed" so to speak made from either, and the idea is you don't need to heat it to meet an injectible viscosity (which is only temporary)

Then there is commercial or genuine biodiesel that meets ASTM-6751 (in the US market) (which advocates themselves claim only deserves the title) which is suitible for use in MB diesel engines up to 5% mixed with 95% ULSD per latest factory specification.

Then, plain old diesel.

These are all important differences I wanted to spell out. I hope the difference is clear and this explanation isn't seen as mere semantics.

Cheers and please continue. :)

[John E]

in my original post. I was referring to making/filtering/producing fuel. Not to buying it from a commercial source.

You are correct that purchasing bio-diesel from a commercial seller is the easiest alternative to commercial petro diesel.

Since the original poster was asking about converting a vehicle to use vegetable oil, it's a moot point.

And of course if using the simplest means were the point, than we wouldn't even have this forum.

The main point of my reply was to correct the notion that vegetable oil needed to be "melted" in order to be used, that remains an incorrect description of the process of using vegetable oil as an alternative to either bio, or petro diesel.


John Emmons

[VLayton]

John,

I at least got what you said clearly, and think you're right about that, I've not seen solid fat used in fryers, always liquid. It was a good clarification about the type of oil used in the process and on topic.

I just felt the need to run down all the different fuels and terms and properties for the clarity of the general reader, becuase the terminology can be rather blanket on this topic at times. Often the term biodiesel is used to describe anything not petroleum, while we familiar with this subject know there are factors between the fuel alternatives within this often lump-tive description. :)

[dropnosky]

Ive been running WVO as well for a while, and I love it. I went with a GoldenFuelSystems kit instead of greascar, but both will work, I just liked the setup of that system a little better, and a little bit simpler controls and a vacuum guage, which has been very useful. The fact of the matter is that both of these companies use the highest quality parts they can find, hence the high price of a full, all weather kit. Lovecraft makes a decent kit, but its limited by its single tank nature, and it really only works on old benzes in warm climates, which are basically unkillable anyway.
I picked up an 86 ford escort with a mazda diesel in it, and here are my fuel experiments on this engine. All the fuels were filtered down to about a 2 micron level, and fully dewatered.

1. used motor oil- car runs the same, but your hair will stand on end because it smells like burning motor oil (no surprise)
2. Brake fluid- I would not reccomend this- runs strange and kind of unresponsive, plus, I am pretty sure that the smell will kill you
3. transmission fluid- car runs pretty well, no really noticable difference, same smell issue s the motor oil as well.
4. Power steering fluid- same deal as brake fluid. ran, but strange.
5. Vegetable, hydrogenated- that was fun, heated up a brick and melted it down, ran fine, but you better clear out the motor after or thats it.
6. vegetable oil, non hydrogenated- ran like diesel, a little quiter, and tasty.
7. Mix of everything, equal parts- ran the same as diesel

Basically, I discovered that the car would run on anything if you had a heated fuel system. There are things that I wouldnt run alone, but as a mix it worked just fine. I try to stay away from burning the fossil engine fluids though, it just doesent fit well with the opportunity to run cleaner vegetable.

[VLayton]

1. used motor oil- car runs the same, but your hair will stand on end because it smells like burning motor oil (no surprise)

Burning waste engine oil is not only not good on the car, but creates the nastiest pollutants of any of these things listed, (probably, running one on brake fluid is a new one!)


Basically, I discovered that the car would run on anything if you had a heated fuel system. There are things that I wouldnt run alone, but as a mix it worked just fine. I try to stay away from burning the fossil engine fluids though, it just doesent fit well with the opportunity to run cleaner vegetable

Sulfer, the nastiest thing that comes in diesel fuel, has now been reduced by 99.7% over the fuel the car was designed on (5000ppm). That seems like tremendous environmental progress to me.

If that's not enough, B50 could bring that down to 7ppm (parts per million)

PS, I have absolutely NO gripe with experiments to MAZDA-POWERED FORDS! :D

[dropnosky]

if you want to talk about the worst ever designed engine for maintenence. it is the mazda 2.0 diesel. I got the car for other reasons, but when I discovered that when I went to change the timing belt, step one was- Remove engine from car. a couple of the belts, including timing, actually run around a motor mount. Who in gods name thought this was a good idea? Im not fond of tranverse mounted engine setups, mainly because of similar problems, but that was the worst. After that, it became, what is the limit of this engines capabilites car, not, car for commuting. Ran just fine though, but give me an old benz any day.

[VLayton]

How about a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am with 41kmi that needed a water pump...

Under warranty, the dealer had to pull the motor to change it!

Might have been dealer exploiting the parent comapany warranty, but I wouldn't think they'd go through all that if they didn't have to...

Well we're offically off topic now thanks to this post! :rolleyes: