Considering 300D Turbo purchase, advice?

[dbn1066]

Hi all, I usually can be found on the 114/115 group but have recently considered branching out to a 123. I found one not far from me and need some help as I am not familiar with them having only owned 220D's. I went to look at the car and here is the gist of it: first what I knew before I looked at it and then what I found out.

Georgia car till recently (i'm in Pittsburgh), no rust (supposedly), no winters, garage kept always, interior no cracks or fading except for dash, present owner bought it from elderly second (or third) owner and knows nothing about Mercedes but thinks it will need a timing chain (what are the symptems?), no real maintenance records, 226k, no known rebuilds, etc. ivory ext., blue int. Fellow says it runs great, but doesn't want to use it as far out in the country as he lives- horrible roads, etc (mile long mud-n-rut driveway).

The car has NO rust. Almost unheard of around here. It came to Pa from Georgia in 2000 and never saw a winter or sat out- i.e. no salt. jack points are perfect as are all areas of the rockers, wheel well flares, etc. Floors and trunk are bone dry and solid as the day it was born. Interior is dirty but in very good condition, as if no seat but the driver's was ever used. Dash has cracks and some of the wood pieces are cracked, piece above center of console has fallen out but is present. Sunroof works and does not leak, windows work fine except pass. rear. Door locks work. Heat works but a/c doesn't kick on and blower seems to only have one speed-low (but niether myself or PO now how to work them exactly- do you push the on fan button more than once for higher speed?).

Steering and handling seem fine- no noises or pulls. Brakes will need attention but car stops fine, good pressure. Shocks will need replaced but the car handled the 'country roads' just fine, I was impressed. Rubber suspension bushings looked ok but it was hard to get a good look.

Auto transmission seemed to shift fine: 1-2nd around 15mph, 2-3rd around 30-35, and 3-4th around 40-45. My research says this is normal? Shift linkage may need adjusted as the shift lever doesn't stay on the D- falls down one.

Engine: Started and shut off as requested although a noticeable knock and rough idle when warm (engine shakes @ idle but not violently)- worries me a little as I don't know enough to diagnose this. However, there is no knowledge of the last valve adjustment and the timing chain is due to be changed; don't know about the IP but oil level in it was good- timing may be off? A good tune-up and thorough fluids/filters change + fresh diesel are in order. (Car has not been inspected or driven since '02). There was no evidence of fuel leaks. IP was dry and bloc, head, and rest of the engine bay was clean except for oil residue from oil fill cap (looked like an after market replacement with bad seal). Compression seemed fine as engine had plenty of power. How do I check for blowby? And what exactly is blowby? Some have told me its a non-issue, I don't believe it is. Please forgive my ignorance on this issue...

Also, I am not familiar with turbos but I know enough to tell that this one's seemed to kick in just fine!

Well, thats the gist of it. I think it seems like a good deal @ 1500. Thoughts? Answers? Thanks for your time.

[VLayton]

Hi all, I usually can be found on the 114/115 group but have recently considered branching out to a 123. I found one not far from me and need some help as I am not familiar with them having only owned 220D's. I went to look at the car and here is the gist of it: first what I knew before I looked at it and then what I found out.

Georgia car till recently (i'm in Pittsburgh), no rust (supposedly), no winters, garage kept always, interior no cracks or fading except for dash, present owner bought it from elderly second (or third) owner and knows nothing about Mercedes but thinks it will need a timing chain (what are the symptems?), no real maintenance records, 226k, no known rebuilds, etc. ivory ext., blue int. Fellow says it runs great, but doesn't want to use it as far out in the country as he lives- horrible roads, etc (mile long mud-n-rut driveway).

The car has NO rust. Almost unheard of around here. It came to Pa from Georgia in 2000 and never saw a winter or sat out- i.e. no salt. jack points are perfect as are all areas of the rockers, wheel well flares, etc. Floors and trunk are bone dry and solid as the day it was born. Interior is dirty but in very good condition, as if no seat but the driver's was ever used. Dash has cracks and some of the wood pieces are cracked, piece above center of console has fallen out but is present. Sunroof works and does not leak, windows work fine except pass. rear. Door locks work. Heat works but a/c doesn't kick on and blower seems to only have one speed-low (but niether myself or PO now how to work them exactly- do you push the on fan button more than once for higher speed?).

Steering and handling seem fine- no noises or pulls. Brakes will need attention but car stops fine, good pressure. Shocks will need replaced but the car handled the 'country roads' just fine, I was impressed. Rubber suspension bushings looked ok but it was hard to get a good look.

Auto transmission seemed to shift fine: 1-2nd around 15mph, 2-3rd around 30-35, and 3-4th around 40-45. My research says this is normal? Shift linkage may need adjusted as the shift lever doesn't stay on the D- falls down one.

Engine: Started and shut off as requested although a noticeable knock and rough idle when warm (engine shakes @ idle but not violently)- worries me a little as I don't know enough to diagnose this. However, there is no knowledge of the last valve adjustment and the timing chain is due to be changed; don't know about the IP but oil level in it was good- timing may be off? A good tune-up and thorough fluids/filters change + fresh diesel are in order. (Car has not been inspected or driven since '02). There was no evidence of fuel leaks. IP was dry and bloc, head, and rest of the engine bay was clean except for oil residue from oil fill cap (looked like an after market replacement with bad seal). Compression seemed fine as engine had plenty of power. How do I check for blowby? And what exactly is blowby? Some have told me its a non-issue, I don't believe it is. Please forgive my ignorance on this issue...

Also, I am not familiar with turbos but I know enough to tell that this one's seemed to kick in just fine!

Well, thats the gist of it. I think it seems like a good deal @ 1500. Thoughts? Answers? Thanks for your time.


I only have a minute, but it sounds way too good to betrue, sorry. I have SOOO many stories about very very dissapointing pristine cars....

Just satuday: $3500 115k 240D 4-speed, garage kept, "minimal rust" - all I need to say is I could see daylight at the rear left driver seat rail upon opening the rear door. It would be good to take your time and reasearch, unless you have other justifications.

Cheers

[dbn1066]

Forgive me, please, I think I should clarify. This is what I knew before going to look at the car:

Georgia car till recently (i'm in Pittsburgh), no rust (supposedly), no winters, garage kept always, interior no cracks or fading except for dash, present owner bought it from elderly second (or third) owner and knows nothing about Mercedes but thinks it will need a timing chain (what are the symptems?), no real maintenance records, 226k, no known rebuilds, etc. ivory ext., blue int. Fellow says it runs great, but doesn't want to use it as far out in the country as he lives- horrible roads, etc (mile long mud-n-rut driveway).
He has only had the car for less than a week and really doesn't know the car- I saw the title request, checked the dates and will be getting a carfax report soon.

This is what I know after seeing the car in person earlier this evening ( I spent 2 hours going over the car, driving it, and asking questions- I limited the length of my post and observations):

The car has NO rust. Almost unheard of around here. It came to Pa from Georgia in 2000 and never saw a winter or sat out- i.e. no salt. jack points are perfect as are all areas of the rockers, wheel well flares, etc. Floors and trunk are bone dry and solid as the day it was born. Interior is dirty but in very good condition, as if no seat but the driver's was ever used. Dash has cracks and some of the wood pieces are cracked, piece above center of console has fallen out but is present. Sunroof works and does not leak, windows work fine except pass. rear. Door locks work. Heat works but a/c doesn't kick on and blower seems to only have one speed-low (but niether myself or PO now how to work them exactly- do you push the on fan button more than once for higher speed?).

Steering and handling seem fine- no noises or pulls. Brakes will need attention but car stops fine, good pressure. Shocks will need replaced but the car handled the 'country roads' just fine, I was impressed. Rubber suspension bushings looked ok but it was hard to get a good look.

Auto transmission seemed to shift fine: 1-2nd around 15mph, 2-3rd around 30-35, and 3-4th around 40-45. My research says this is normal? Shift linkage may need adjusted as the shift lever doesn't stay on the D- falls down one.

Engine: Started and shut off as requested although a noticeable knock and rough idle when warm (engine shakes @ idle but not violently)- worries me a little as I don't know enough to diagnose this. However, there is no knowledge of the last valve adjustment and the timing chain is due to be changed; don't know about the IP but oil level in it was good- timing may be off? A good tune-up and thorough fluids/filters change + fresh diesel are in order. (Car has not been inspected or driven since '02). There was no evidence of fuel leaks. IP was dry and bloc, head, and rest of the engine bay was clean except for oil residue from oil fill cap (looked like an after market replacement with bad seal). Compression seemed fine as engine had plenty of power. How do I check for blowby? And what exactly is blowby? Some have told me its a non-issue, I don't believe it is. Please forgive my ignorance on this issue...

Also, I am not familiar with turbos but I know enough to tell that this one's seemed to kick in just fine!

Well, thats the gist of it. I think it seems like a good deal @ 1500. Thoughts? Answers? Thanks for your time.

[VLayton]

(My friend keps talking, so I keep typing...)


Sorry I didn't read carefully,

If you truly believe it is rust free, and it runs, you should have already given him the $1500! :eek:

Everything else is mere mechanics....

[dbn1066]

Thank you Vince,
My thinking too...
Can't do anything until he gets the title next week- think I'll jump on it though.
Just curious about the knock and vibration at idle- timing and fuel related???

[VLayton]

Could be a number of things.

Start simple with regular, obvious maintenances: valve adjust, fuel filters, ensure time chain tension within spec; tensioner action/chain strecth etc - then look at engine suspension, exhaust mounting type stuff before attempting to adjust fuel pump timing - you could go through the injectors first....

PLUS the shifter linkage bushings and such...

I'll bet what it really wants is to DRIVE- that and fresh fluids and filters is the way to start. Issues then become evident or go away. These cars perform best on a regular, non-token basis.

I think you'll enjoy the W123, 1985? is a good year.

Regards,

[AnthroProfessor]

Thank you for sharing this with us.


I have nothing against noting every detail of the car before purchase and its good the guy gave you 2 hours to look it over. Only $1500? That is dirt cheap for something that runs.

Quite honestly, on these cars, if you cannot find any rust, body damage and the paint looks decent to excellent along with the seats looking good as you say, I'd JUMP on that deal myself. Because the price is so low, the mechanics stuff can be easily fixed by yourself or pay a professional Mercedes tech (you would still come out ahead). Whether the windows work or not or if the A/C blows cold is not even close to a deal breaker at that price. Good 123s are worth around $5000, so you have $3500 to spend after initial purchase.

I have to agree with Vince on this. If the body is that good and it runs, $1500 is nothing. Heck, I want this car now that you mention it but I live on the West Coast. Show me a 123 without any rust, and I will give $1500 without even test driving it. You have something that runs!

I would not worry too much about engine idle as a cause to not purchase it. The engine needs diagnostics run, of course as with any used car purchase. The Mercedes guide says 2.5 hours to run diagnostics, so that's a little below $300 at the dealer to adjust the valves, check the timing chain and make needed adjustments. They will check compression for you and that ought to give you a good idea what shape the engine is in. However, if a diesel engine runs, it will continue to run. Injector pumps are not known to malfunction on these cars. If the head on the engine is good, the car will never stall on you. Let me put it to you this way: My engine died one day. My mechanic at the time warned me that it needs a rebuild since he saw the cylinder rings worn. My head was cracked too. All I opted for was a brand new cylinder head direct from Mercedes of Germany (I am a purist) and $2500 later, the engine turns on instantly and no problems even though it has some knocking and some oil consumption although I was told that my freeway driving consumes oil and that knocking is not uncommon for diesel from time to time. I used Lubromoly diesel additive and it runs much better. I have no regrets, but I do not recommend this on any other engine. These diesel are bullet proof and can run reliably even with things are not in perfect order. The body is more important to look at.

Since you are familiar with 115 body styles, you should be a good home mechanic in your own right. You will find that these 123s are a pleasure to work on and these forums have lots of people ready to help you get the car in order with you.

I wish I can come across a rust free car with nice seats that runs for $1500 in my area.

[AnthroProfessor]

It has been sitting since 2002? You need to change all fluids and filters to be safe and then see what is wrong with it.

Let us know how it goes.

[Maxbumpo]

Forget blow-by, and I'd even advise against compression checks. The true measure of engine health is (1) does it start easily in cold weather and (2) how much oil does it consume. (1) will tell you if the compression is sufficient, and (2) will tell you the condition of the rings.

Please note that improper or neglected maintenance can affect (1) tremendously, and carboned up rings can worsen (2).

Get the valves adjusted, and check the stretch of the timing chain while you are there. If it is original, and if oil changes have been done at proper intervals, you should see 4 degrees of stretch or less. 5 degress or more, and it is time for a new chain.

A routine tune-up does NOT include checking the timing of the injection pump. The pump timing does not change with time (like timing on a gas engine with distributor/points). I would not mess with it unless there is reason to believe that it has been changed.

There is a idle adjustment bolt/spring on the fuel pump, old ones were silver and new ones are gold colored. The old style would weaken with time and affect the idle. I've never done this repair or even seen on of these, so do your research before attempting this repair.

[dropnosky]

I paid 1500 for a car in the same area that had 3 exits from the trunk.


that is a great deal

[dbn1066]

Thank you all for the input. I have decided to buy the car- my first 123!- seems I'd be crazy to pass on it. I will bring her home in the next week or so, I'll have to free up some space around here first. And don't worry, I'll get some pictures up when I get the car here... :cool:

[Marshall Welch]

There is a idle adjustment bolt/spring on the fuel pump, old ones were silver and new ones are gold colored. The old style would weaken with time and affect the idle. I've never done this repair or even seen on of these, so do your research before attempting this repair.

I think they are called rack damper pins. They are on the rear of the injection pump- the side facing the firewall. Do a forum search and you'll find details about these.

[sbiggers]

I agree with the comments made -- sounds like a good car and an excellent price. The w123s are solid cars and a joy to drive.

[Highway Star]

I paid $3500 for my totally rust free 300D and it had a very shakey idle at startup and wouldn't shift out of first. After some minor linkage adjustments and fresh fluids, it shifts fine and idles nicely after it warms up, (but still needs a valve adjustment).

So, if it dosen't have any rust, and has a clean title, and the owner wants $1500 for it and, you have $1500, get it before I do!

[dbn1066]

Again, thank you for all the input. I'm still waiting for the title to get to the current owner (he had just bought the car). CO is as anxious as me, so he says. I have the space in the garage all ready for it. All thats left to do is the sign "Its a Mercedes" (like a new baby boy or girl sign) for the front yard. Well, just kidding about that one. I will post a pic once it is actually in my posession. After that I'm sure I will be asking many questions once I change all the fluids and filters, etc., and go over the car thoroughly.

[Maxbumpo]

Seems rather suspicious that he just bought it, doesn't have title, and wants to resell quickly. Can you run the VIN with your local police department to make sure the car is not stolen? Is the car from out of state?

I'd recommend you pay him the majority of the agreed price, have him give you the car and a bill of sale (see your DMV for help with a bill of sale). When the title comes in, you pay the balance and get the title.

Have you run a car fax on the VIN? Do that first to make sure there are no hidden surprises (i.e. flood car).

[dbn1066]

The owner plows snow in the winter an found this car in the garage of one of his elderly customers who no longer drives. Not sure what he payed for it or maybe it was payment for plowing. Anyway, the car came from Georgia in 03 and was not titled or registered in Pa until he obtained the car from this older gentleman. When he got the car home the 'wife' said no way and so he was going to try to turn the car around. Having no prior knowledge of MB he began looking on ebay and found my "want it now" posting and contacted me. The car has been in a climate controlled garage for the past four years. But still had the oil changed every 3 months even though it was never driven. Carfax was clean. Also, the country notary who did the transfer of ownership snail mailed everything to the DMV in Harrisburg. So I'm not surprised at the length of time for the title getting back to him, with the out of state thing and the mail. Incidently, had he gone through AAA, for example, where all paperwork is electronically sent to the DMV the process would be over by now. The notary said (and I confirmed this myself) up to 90 days with mailed in processing. Nice, huh?

[Alex]

dbn1066,

It's nice to see that car bargains still exist. I hope for your sake that the deal goes through as planned, in which case you'll end up with a great car.

[Grey Ghost]

Normally I advise running, not walking, from a car with so many miles and NO SERVICE RECORDS, but as others have observed, this car's price is right, especially if the coachwork is as pristine as advertised.

[dbn1066]

There are a good many records with the car. I could not find any pertaing to the last valve adjustment. That aside, I will have one done and have the chain checked/changed. Its due for pads and maybe rotors along with new fluids and filters. I agree with Vince that what it really needs is to just get driving again!