Transmission

[IndyMark]

What has been the general experience with re-built transmissions other than factory units?
My 80 300sd seems to be nearing that point. I'm finding rebuilts ranging from 1300 - 1800 from sources that specialize in Mercedes Benz parts OEM and aftermarket parts. (some of the sources have been mention in these forums)
I know factory is best, but....

[Don350SDL]

I had mine rebuilt by the guy in Hackensack NJ that advertises in hemmings and The Star, out & in by a local guy plus rebuild was $1900, including some other work (vacuum pump, motor mounts - my parts though). Note this was 3 years ago, it still runs fine. Rebuilt from MB was more, but they do offer a significant warranty (2 years unlimited miles I believe) and it was quoted under $2500.

So, that seems reasonable

[VLayton]

I believe the MB warranty is 4 years 50k. :)

I predict MSRP on a unit from MB to be about $2650, with a $1200 torque converter.

If you are going to fork out big bucks for a transmission, don't skimp. Get your best price on quality work!

Why do you think you need a transmision? You're sure it's not a vacuum or adjustment problem?

[Maxbumpo]

Vince is right - it could simply need to be tuned, could even be that your engine is out of tune. When was the filter and fluid last changed and did they drain the torque converter as well?

[IndyMark]

First thing I tested was vacuum to the transmission, vacuum decreased with motor RPM as specified.
One of the oldest independent M/B mechanics in Indianapolis has been working on the car since then.
1st problem: kickdown solenoid was constantly engaged, fixed that.
He then worked on adjusting shifts. When 1 shift is good another is not.
He has given me 4 options:

1. continue to dig further into a transmission with 155K miles or put that money toward:
2. used transmission
3. factory rebuild transmission
4. aftermarket rebuild

I have ruled #2 out.
I can't afford $4000 for a factory unit (installed)

so I'm evaluating the options

[AnthroProfessor]

This is something I do have knowledge about.


A remanufactured unit from MB is MSRP $3800. I am sure the wholesale price is around $3000, maybe a little less, but don't hold your breath. The torque converter is not included in this price, but the dealer told me that it is rare they ever need to be changed with the cases they have had.

You still need to get a tranny installed. MB dealership quoted an estimate of around $800 for installation.

An indy shop that that does quality work charges $2500 total for rebuild with MB parts plus installation (out the door price). Anything less than that price you have to wonder if they are scrimping on something.

In 1998, when I was getting a rebuild, I shopped around a lot. the dealer MSRP for a tranny that time was $2200 out the door price. What a bargain!!!

The warranty on a remanufactured unit is 2 years, 24,000 miles warranty.

I have had very bad experiences with tranny rebuilds. An honest mechanic rebuilt one for me, but it lasted about 30K I believe and never ever worked properly--it was always slipping. He was honest, used aftermarket parts (never hid that fact) but admitted he does not specialize in Mercedes. It was a couple hundred dollars only and he did not have intention to do anything bad since he was so forthcoming. I was about 20 years then, and had no idea about a lot of things automotive related.

Next rebuild lasted 60K. I drive really carefully mind you. This time I had a MB tech with a shop rebuild mine. It never worked properly at all and now its dead--it was always slipping too. I always complained about it, but the master tech never caught on. He simply played with the vacuum modulator as if to mask the slipping so I would shut up. It was discovered later that the 4 vacuum components on top of the engine were all leaking vacuum which caused shifting problems. This mechanic is still in denial that he did anything wrong. I am making a case to the Bureau of Automotive Repair on this one and do have paper work that show he missed this diagnosis, however, I wish I had more documentation for an even tighter case because even though I am an extremely honest person, the judge of a court will want documentation as much as possible. The next tranny I get, I need to talk to a lawyer about how to bust these mechanics so I have legal recourse on my side. I want to know how to have legally appropriate records of my complaints and that I bring the car to the shop regularly to make sure it is running right or not. So, in case things are missed again, I will have a paper trail.


I have had good luck with a USED transmission. Believe or not. I installed a used transmission in the 1983 turbo diesel and it works PERFECT as confirmed by two separate MB techs.

I am leaning toward used or remanufactured, a rebuilt one just does not work, and if it does, are you sure the slipping is not being masked by vacuum modulator adjustment?

[Maxbumpo]

Andre,

I wouldn't be so certain about what the proper price is for rebuild/install if I were you. The variable that you may not have considered is the price of labor and the skill of the mechanic. In some markets (like Charleston) independent mechanic labor is far cheaper (low cost of living) than California or other parts of the country. A skilled mechanic can also get the job done in a shorter period of time (and some are willing to bill you for their time vs. book time). My favorite mechanic quoted me $1500 to remove, rebuild, and install an auto transmission in a 123 car. He's done lots of other work for me and some close friends, and I have absolute confidence in him (he was the first one to clue me in to the vast amount of adjusting that can be done to make a tranny behave properly). If the time comes, I will not hesitate to pay him $1500 to rebuild my transmission.

I do agree that used transmissions are generally a safe bet. Average life is around 250k miles, but if well cared for they can last longer, so if you find a low mileage unit, jump on it.

[AnthroProfessor]

I probably have California prices written out--thanks for the correction Max.

I guess we are more expensive than other states. That explains the $1500-1800 quote for out the door rebuilds in other states. Sad thing is, I cannot have those prices:confused:

[AnthroProfessor]

My father found a remanufactured tranny at a junk yard and brought it home for less than $60. It was a pull your own part, that is why its dirt cheap. The tranny is used, but at least you know its original MB material and replaced a tranny that was worn out, so there is a good chance the car wore out faster than this tranny.
I can use the tranny on one of my cars, but not for my 1981 which actually needs one now.

I will continue to rummage junkyards for that reason.


By the way Max, if your indy mechanic is that good, that's great, then its worth getting a rebuild with him. That is money well spent. A lot of supposedly good mechanics are clueless when it comes to properly adjusting the tranny. They know about the vacuum modulator and play with that, but there is also the cable, the linkages, and whether the throttle is perfectly adjusted to be in sinc with the engine speed and all that. Then there is the issue of vacuum components on top of the engine. I am sure there are more, but I am no expert. One thing I have learned is that many mechanics who lack knowledge will try and shut the customer up by making the shift harder and then saying "See, it no longer slips" That is just masking, but a very common technique, enough to get over the hump of the warranty. Is it unethical? That goes without saying.

[AnthroProfessor]

I need to compare notes with other 123 drivers.


I have noticed that the transmission on the 1985 300D is smoother and less rough shifting than the other model years of 123s.

The 1983 model shifts rough. You feel each shift as a clunk as the gear engages. To make the shift softer would run it at a risk of having it slip, which may feel smoother, but wears the transmission out faster.

The 1981 300D is not as smooth as the 1985 300D. It also clunks into gear. If it clunks too hard, there is a vacuum problem. One has some leeway as to how hard or how soft one wants the shift to be and the trick is to set the vacuum modulator just right so it does not shift too soft resulting in faster wear, or too hard, resulting in damaging the bands.

Does the 124 have a smoother tranny than any 123? I am sure the 126 is identical to the 123.

[Highway Star]

Anyone know how much a rebuild kit costs? My MB's trans is working fine, but I'd like to know about the 5th option IndyMark didn't list: rebulding it myself.
I've rebuilt several transmissions (including my moms Camry) and they've all worked perfectly :cool: (i.e. haven't broken yet.)

[AnthroProfessor]

Highway star,

tranny rebuild kits were $450 for all soft parts. This was a number of years ago, so I don't how much prices went up.

I would not doubt you can rebuild the tranny yourself and probably do a better job than most of those clowns out there that say they can rebuild a Mercedes tranny.

You need that machine that tests a tranny while its off the car and I don't know if you have that. Since you have experience in rebuilding them and they work properly, then perhaps you should try a Mercedes tranny. One tech told me that it is difficult because of the hidden seals. Well, the tranny kit comes with everything soft, so don't stop until all parts in the kit are installed.

You can get the blue prints of the tranny and it sounds like you have enough tools to do the job (if you did other trannies, then you must have at least most tools to do the job). Maybe it will take you several days, but I would not be surprised if you were successful.

Just remember one thing, mechanics are people too and nothing about them is superior over you, so more power to you for attempting this project.

[Highway Star]

Highway star,

tranny rebuild kits were $450 for all soft parts. This was a number of years ago, so I don't how much prices went up.

That's for the kit from Mercedes, and not an aftermarket company? Sounds like a reasonable price.

You need that machine that tests a tranny while its off the car and I don't know if you have that. .

Believe it or not, I do have access to a trans dyno.:D

Just remember one thing, mechanics are people too and nothing about them is superior over you,

Of course they aren't, I'm almost finished with my training to BE a paid mechanic. I'll begin looking for a shop to apply for a full time job after my last class ends in May.

[AnthroProfessor]

Highway,

Now I remember, you did mention you were training to be a tech. The kit I quoted you was MB material. To get the most updated price, call Caliber Motors of Anaheim Hills on the West Coast, or Duval Motors in Gainesville, Florida. Both are auth. MB dealers that sell wholesale to the public.

original MB tranny parts are not as expensive as one thinks. One credible tech told me that the aftermarket stuff really isn't that good. I guess one could get away with aftermarket parts on other things, but the tranny is not one of them. As you know, every tranny rebuild is different. While they all need to have the soft parts from the kit installed, the amount of hard parts needed varies widely and in price too.

I am glad you have access to a transmission dyno (now I know what they are called) so if you can repair a Camry, you will be able to do a Mercedes. More power to you!!!!