Fuel Question

[hondaman7]

Does anyone know the consequences of the new "ultra low sulfur diesel fuel" on our famed turbo diesel engines? Obviously these old diesels were designed for standard #2 diesel. I've personally found that diesel #2 has yielded the most efficient mileage results for me. Premium Diesel always cuts my economy by a percentage, and it seems that my mileage now is even less with the implementation of "ultra low sulfur diesel fuel" now required in the U.S. since June 2006. Is there any additive that should be used to prevent injector/engine/or other failures?

I guess if it's just a mileage reduction, I can live with it, but I'd hate to think that I'm running the engine on a fuel that is causing premature wear to my beloved 83 300d. Perhaps I'll just buy home heating oil instead :) .

Any information/discussion is greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,

Adam Cord

[Corey]

Search the Diesel Discussion forum... I believe this has been discussed at length there. I recently bought an 83 240D and it seems to run well on ULSD, but that's all I've ever run in it so I don't know how it used to run with the "old" #2. As for heating oil, the thought of putting fuel of a grade intended for furnaces into a machine with a bunch of moving parts doesn't trip my trigger...... although I suppose the hydrocarbon mix would be more of a concern than potential impurities.:)

Corey

[johnmci]

Well I think I noticed the decrease in mileage, but switch to a wholesaler who supplies 5% biodiesel, so I'm still collecting numbers. Diesel oil is oil, so the injectors are lubricated. The IP on w123s are lubricated by engine oil, so that is fine too. Likely the brew of components to providing lubrication instead of using the sulfur is changing the dynamics of the burn, less energy, so poorer mileage (assuming that is the issue of course).

It may be that illegally used heating oil (no road tax) is just the same brew+dye as the stuff from the pump depending on your location since the supplier might not want to have high sulfer tanks/trucks etc around to possibly cross contaminate the ULSD. You would have to check with your supplier to see exactly what the heating oil is...

[Corey]

too. Likely the brew of components to providing lubrication instead of using the sulfur is changing the dynamics of the burn, less energy, so poorer mileage (assuming that is the

This is discussed at length in this thread (http://mbca.cartama.net/showthread.php?t=17531&highlight=ULSD) of the Diesel Discussion forum. Apparently the sulfur content of the fuel is not what affects the lubricating properties of ULSD, it is the sulfur removal process. At any rate, there seems to be a consensus (and facts to back this up, see the thread) that other than a small decrease in fuel mileage, the ULSD is good stuff.

Corey

[benzbum]

Perhaps I'll just buy home heating oil instead :) .
Adam:

I note from your public profile that you are located in Indiana. I don't know what the laws are in Indiana or how strictly they are enforced but it is a very expensive proposition to get caught here in Virginia running non-taxed (dyed) fuel in any vehicle operated on the public highways. The Virginia State Police strictly enforce and regularly run inspections on the major truck route I travel daily (US-15) and they do inspect diesel cars and trucks for this very issue, especially when diesel fuel prices spike, as they have recently. The following is from Virginia Code:

Is there a penalty for unlawful use of dyed diesel fuel?
Yes. The civil penalty is a minimum of $1,000 or $10 per gallon of fuel, based on the maximum storage capacity of the tank(s). Penalties are charged on the propulsion tanks of the vehicle as well as on any storage tanks on the vehicles. Penalties can also be charged on the storage tank at the farm if that was the source of the dyed fuel found in the vehicle. (Va. Code §58.1-2265(B))

Any person who refuses to allow an inspection or collection of a fuel sample is subject to a $5,000 penalty for each refusal. If the refusal is for a vehicle fuel sample collection, the penalty is assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle. If the refusal is for a sample to be taken from any other storage tank or container, the penalty will be payable by the owner of the storage tank or container. (Va. Code § 58.1-2267)

A person may be charged with a Class 6 felony if he or she uses dyed diesel fuel for a use that he or she knows or has reason to know is a taxable use of the fuel. Penalties can be charged if a person sells dyed diesel fuel to someone who the seller knows or has reason to know will use the fuel for a taxable purpose. If the amount of fuel is less than 20 gallons, the person may be charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(7))

A person who attempts to alter the strength or composition of any dye or dye marker in any dyed diesel fuel may be charged with a Class 6 felony. (Va. Code § 58.1-2273(8))

Trust me, they don't fool around. I can run dyed fuel in my farm equipment but I would never risk running it in any of my road vehicles.

[Marshall Welch]

Good questions- the lower "lubricity" of the low-sulfur fuel gets mentioned in some public forums such as newspaper columns or talk radio shows on car care. I raised this very question myself on the Diesel Discussions forum shortly after I acquired my car and was starting to learn about diesels. If I recall accurately, according to "der Dieseling Doktor" on the Diesel Discussions forum, this lower lubricity doesn't make a difference to MB Diesel engines because they are lubricated entirely by engine oil, including the injection pump. Or something like that- he said not to worry about it.

Now- what is "Premium" diesel? I see those signs posted at the Shell stations around here. I think I remember them saying on the Diesel Discussions forum that there probably wasn't much difference between diesel and "Premium" diesel. Happy dieseling...

[johnmci]

premium diesel, a marketing term for more money into the oil industry pockets.

(a) It *might* have a higher cetane level which means it burns faster
(b) It *might* have additives for lubricity, detergents, water dispersants, tolerate lower temps.

What it has is up to the supplier, you would need to ask. If you were in California it would mean higher cetane. I know in Canada Shell premium diesel does not alter the cetane, rather just the additive mix.

What this means is I think rather dependent on the era of your car, but I suspect a 2006+ era diesel would do better with higher cetane. At least what I've read about VW TDI engines they for example prefer higher cetane. As for W123/W124 diesels I've not seen any difference to justify the expense, other than the 6% drop in mileage I saw when ULSD was introduced.

Asking might locate a supplier who has a higher cetane level just because their process for making diesel produces a diesel with a higher cetane since I believe the values can range from 40-46 for regular diesel.

[r100]

THE FEDS ARE THE ONES TO WORRY ABOUT IF YOU GET CAUGHT USING DYED FUEL THEY WILL FIND WHERE YOU FILLED FROM & THE FINE WILL BE BASED ON THE GALLONS OF THE TANK WHERE YOU GOT YOUR FUEL OUT OF WAS CAPABLE OF HOLDING. IE: IF THE TANK WAS ABLE TO HOLD 10000 GALLONS IT WOULD BE A% OF 10000. IT CAN GET REAL COSTLY REAL FAST. NOT WORTH THE RISK.


Elmer

[r100]

THE FEDS ARE THE ONES TO WORRY ABOUT IF YOU GET CAUGHT USING DYED FUEL THEY WILL FIND WHERE YOU FILLED FROM & THE FINE WILL BE BASED ON THE GALLONS OF THE TANK WHERE YOU GOT YOUR FUEL OUT OF WAS CAPABLE OF HOLDING. IE: IF THE TANK WAS ABLE TO HOLD 10000 GALLONS IT WOULD BE A% OF 10000. IT CAN GET REAL COSTLY REAL FAST. NOT WORTH THE RISK.


Elmer