SL suspension

[raccoonface]

I have a 1972 450 SL and I wanted a performance suspension set up for it, if nothing else a kit to lower it (without cutting springs)... Does a system like this exist? I've been poking around a bit, but the most useful site I've found is Perf Prods but they don't have what I want. Also, I was interested in an 18 inch rim to fit, but I am only finding 14-16 inch wheels... Did MBZ use some odd 5 lug pattern that no one makes wheels for?

Thanks for any response.

okbye

EDIT: Oh, yea! Brakes too! Does anyone make performance brake systems for this model?

[JimVillers]

coonface .... Yes, the MB lug pattern is unique so you need "Mercedes" wheels.

There is little "performance" equipment manufactured designed for your car. Depending on your ability, there are springs available that can be used on the car based on mechanical characteristics. An easy first option would be Koni adjustable shocks. (http://www.koni-na.com/index.cfm)

As for brakes, install a set of carbon-Kevlar pads for a place like R4S Porterfield (http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/)

[MTI]

The 112x5 lug pattern isn't quite so unique, since Audi and VW also used it, but what makes the Mercedes wheels somewhat unique is the hub bore size, 66.5mm. Mercedes wheels are "hubcentric" so that much of the weight bearing is done with the hub center flange, not the bolts. I believe the Audi and VW hubs are a smaller diamter than the Mercedes.

[raccoonface]

Thanks for the responses!

okbye

[joeym7]

Hi I would first make sure the frt subframe is either updated and or inspected for any cracks in the welds as some had a problem,Good luck.Joeym PS If you lower the car you will need to modify the steering box as they had a problem with the extra force breaking a component inside

[Chuck Landenberger]

IIRC, there was a recall that is still in effect for W107's with front subframe cracks..

MB will replace at no charge if cracks are present....... Have your indy or a dealer check it out.

HTH,

Chuck

[ja17]

Hello,


Try "The Tire Rack" for Mercedes Wheels. They should have a variety even for your vintage W107. Some aftermarket springs are available also. John Olson "SL Market Newsletter" sells made to order springs for most Mercedes SLs.


Years ago BBS supplied the wider and larger diameter wheels for the W107 Factory Rally cars.

[gjmagnus]

I have the same car, except I call it a 350SL since the original 350 emblem is still on it. And yes, it has the 4.5 liter V8 also.

I'll be interested in what you do with your car. I hope you let us know.

[marlinspike]

I really doubt you want to put an 18" wheel on a R107 chassis. The suspension and brakes just won't be able to deal with the weight of such large wheels (those Bundt wheels weigh less than 15lbs). I think the biggest you should go on an R107 is 16". Tirerack carries the Bilstein HD shock for your car, and that's what I would go with. That should firm it up a bit. I can't find any springs for R107s.

BTW, I don't know what offset the R107 needs, but I would be careful when looking at wheels. Tirerack tends to take the mentality that a 25mm non-hubcentric spacer is nothing to worry about, and it is very much something to worry about.

[raccoonface]

Cool to see people are reading this stuff!

Frame: I believe this had been replaced in the late '80s or early '90s.

Wheels:
I had found some 18 inch rims from a, I believe, '99-ish SL and I was going to put those on. I'll decide what to do about the suspension parts when I get a chance to look at them. Perhaps I'll make or adapt some heftier parts to support the wheels, and larger brakes.

http://www.adsitco.com/catalog/images/thumbs/tn_DSCN0106%20copy.JPG

See what happens at least. The Tire Rack only has BBS wheels that fit the car I have... They'd look good on a BMW, but I'm not stoked on the SL.

Suspension:
I may stick with stock springs, I am going to see what the 18s look like, then decide what to do with the suspension. I will still probably lower it, but that is up in the air since I have not had time to do much research on what to use yet.

Brakes:
I have found some vented discs that I plan on trying with carbon brake pads.

http://www.car-stuff.com/performance/images/products/powerstop/powerstop-xdrilled.jpg
Note: Yes, I know this disc won't fit, but it is what the company has on their website... hopefully they know this won't fit.

I'm still looking for oversized discs... I may just pick up a set for another car and see if I can make them work.

I'll post pics and keep everyone up to date on my progress (I'll take some pics of my starting point soon). Here is my tentative plan so far:

1- I'll be shipping my car from Reno to LA to have the motor and tranny rebuilt, or replaced depending on condition. I just found out that the head gasket is blown. To me this means that the car has been poorly maintained, so for these parts I'd prefer a professional to handle them.

2- Enjoy the drive home in a convertible that will cruise comfortably at 100mph.

3- Interior (also showing serious neglect): Centre console, carpets, seats, dash, heater/ac switches, headliner, guage cluster, sunroof, fuel system/tank, soft top, misc. seals and gaskets, and a warped hard top... Phew.

4- Wheels...

5- Brakes/suspension

6- Paint

4&5 may be switched around or mixed up depending on what I find when I pull them apart, or if I decide to keep the wheels and ride height stock... but, getting brakes either way.

This is, by no means, set in stone. If anyone has advice, suggestions or lessons learned they'd be greatly appreciated.

Pics coming soon. Stay tuned.

okbye

[marlinspike]

To put on bigger rotors you need a whole new brake system. www.stoptech.com can do this but it's like $3700 because they'd have to make a one off for you. The thing is, they are just about the only people I can find who actually care about braking and physics and not just what looks cool and seems like it should brake better by common sense but not necessarily by the laws of phyics. The only thing bigger brakes will do for you is reduce fade, but other than that I always found MB put enough stopping power in their brakes. What you might want to try are some slotted rotors from stoptech and some Axxis Ultimate pads from them and see if that does enough for you.

On wheels, granted I know you want 18"s but the only thing I can think of with a proper offset and all that are 16"s, mainly because of my lack of R107 knowledge. I know for 16's what fits right and looks good (5 spoke, deep dish, they look sharp on a Benz, unlike BBS waffle weaves which I agree are for BMWs) are the old AMG Pentas (or Ronal R9's, which are knock offs but good quality German ones). They come up on www.benzworld.org every now and then. They're 16x8 ET 11.

[MTI]

There are many different viewpoints on aesthetics, but very few on performance. Larger brakes will typically "outperform" smaller units, but there is also the elemental factors of balance, unsprung weight and tire performance. Brakes are only as good as the 4 contact patches that the tires provide.

Coupled with the proper wheels, tires and brakes, the showroom stock Mercedes setup leaves much room for improvement in the field of performance. Aesthetics are too subjective for anyone to be an authority on.

[marlinspike]

Coupled with the proper wheels, tires and brakes, the showroom stock Mercedes setup leaves much room for improvement in the field of performance. Aesthetics are too subjective for anyone to be an authority on.

Hmmm, I know the stock W126 brakes can lock up (well, kick in the ABS) wearing 245 wide race rubber. Granted there's some fade, but it is mostly taken care of with some good slotted rotors and non-OEM pads.

[Don350SDL]

You might be surprised with how well the car performs stock. In its day it was quite the car, even today it's not too shabby if in good condition. Get some driving time in before you go to steps 4 and beyond, see what you think first.

OK, maybe some upgraded brake pads, but even with the stock disks and calipers you'll have an abundance of stopping force. Maybe think about ABS, everything's available.

Don

[MTI]

Fellas, I know how hard it is to break old habits, but this forum was renamed "Performance & Custom Modifications" for a reason. :D

If the "mantra" is going to be "Mercedes knows best" or "You can't improve what the factory did" then this forum is doomed.

[marlinspike]

Fellas, I know how hard it is to break old habits, but this forum was renamed "Performance & Custom Modifications" for a reason. :D

If the "mantra" is going to be "Mercedes knows best" or "You can't improve what the factory did" then this forum is doomed.

See post 12 here http://mbca.cartama.net/showthread.php?t=19642

I just think that there are some things which give no gain 90% of the time, and with these cars that's brakes. Tires/Wheels and suspension (though on a R107 there isn't much available for suspension sure). Maybe what I would do with an R107 is change the bushings on the sway bars (you would have to have bushing custom fabricated).

[JimVillers]

There are real brake improvements that can be made to the 107 brakes. Unless you drive on the track, the difference in brakes may not be apparent. Just locking up the tires is not a good test. A better test would be to progressively increase the braking force until the tires lock up (if you can). Big brakes are needed to feel the braking forces and work them right at the point where the wheels lock up (or go into ABS mode).

I put E430 brakes on my 2.3-16. The rotors are larger, vented front and rear and the pads have about twice the friction area. My 16-valve friends tell me how good 16-valve brakes are (they are really E300 brakes); my E430 brakes are MUCH better.

[MTI]

Jim, if you swap the W201 hubs and spindles with the ones from the R129 . . with the proper rims, you can even put the 500SL Brembos on.

It seems that there's ample room for improvement for brakes in most of the non-AMG Mercedes street cars.

[marlinspike]

There are real brake improvements that can be made to the 107 brakes. Unless you drive on the track, the difference in brakes may not be apparent.

I agree, but the second part was my point: it might not be worth it depending on what he wants to do. (but when I say locking up the tires I was just saying a brake kit won't do anything for single stop braking distances)
Also, I know a person who has tracked a W126 6.0 32-valve AMG. Granted he could have used better brake cooling, but it held pretty well by his account, except for the ATE super blue. And there is another guy who races a modified euro 560SEC that seems to have cured his braking problems simply by changing pads and turning the fog lights into brake cooling ducts.

I think for the cost of switching to 500SL brembos I would just go to Stoptech.

[MTI]

I think for the cost of switching to 500SL brembos I would just go to Stoptech.

Not when you can source good used calipers for a fraction of the price. Increasing performance is great, but when you can do it on a budget, even better. I'm sure Stoptech, much like the dealership service department, is not hurting for business. ;)