1982 300D worth $10k?

[iDreamOfMB]

I recently came across a 300D that looks flawless, and supposedly has a mileage of 80k. I'm trying to find out if those are original miles, or on a rebuilt engine, etc.

But my question is, this car looks like it'll be going for around $9 or $10k, is it worth it? I've been a huge fan of the W123 since my parents owned one when I was a kid, and I've always wanted to own and drive one in perfect condition.

I don't know my way around an engine, nor do I have access to a private garage where I can work on a car, so I was thinking of getting one that's already restored.

Any thoughts on this? Is it worth paying $10k for a 25 year old car (albeit my dream car)?

[AnthroProfessor]

$10K is a good deal on a flawless 123. You will pay more than that amount if you restore one yourself.

80K miles? Is that the odometer? When the engine is rebuilt, the odo is not touched. Look at the service records if any and see how the mileage is documented.

Run the VIN on carfax for some clues. Ask the owner for permission to see records still in the MB dealer database. If the owner is smart, he would want the records retrieved from everywhere so he can show the potential customer where the car has been. You are not necessarily looking at the records to find something unattractive. The records keep a lineage of the miles--that is what is most important. On a smaller note, at least you will also know what parts are newer on the car than others, but I do not worry about that as much as knowing the car has original miles and was cared for. I wouldn't worry about the total mileage on the engine as much as the condition of the chasis and whether it was garage kept. I got a good deal on a 1985 300D because people thought the mileage was to high (over 200K). The chasis was flawless--no dents, chips or sun damage, no sun damage inside, no cracked dash, looked brand new. My father and I bought it without a test drive. It turned out to be the best 123 I have ever seen. The engine has over 260K, but its just broken in.

If there is an invoice showing that the MB dealer replaced the engine, then that is good because then you got a remanufactured unit under the hood that is original and newer than any used thing you can find.

When you buy the car, just make sure you keep up the maintenance. Make sure all fluids and filters are changed every 30K and have the car looked at for any further needs. I live in an apartments complex, so I understand the garage space issue and whether one is allowed to be working on cars out in the open like that. The 15000 mile maintenance can be done in that situation as I have done for years. Changing brake pads were no problem. Tranny fluid is something I recommend getting flushed in order to have a thorough job done. They hook up the tranny lines to a machine and you can see the new clean fluid going in and the old dirty fluid coming out. This is a better way to change the fluid than traditional drain and drip. Also, use synthetic tranny oil for good measure. Dexron III is recommended and you shouldn't have problems with that if keeping up with the service interval, but the synthetic is better and I think you can get away with a longer service interval too.

Hope this helps.

If I can ever find another 1985 300D in the desired silver on black color for $10K that was in MINT condition, I would go for it right now. I have no problems with that. I like the car that much. Brilliant body style, color and reliability.

[Maxbumpo]

Price depends on local market. Here in SC it would be very very tough to get that price.

I agree with all else that Professor of Anthropology wrote, except the tranny flush service part. I don't think that procedure will get the fluid out of the torque converter, and it also leaves behind the dirty filter (only way to get the filter changed is to drop the pan, which requires draining the majority of the fluid, so at that point one might as well just do the job right and drain the fluid from the torque converter as well). I don't think that they do it that way at the dealership service department....

[AnthroProfessor]

Max,

I stand corrected on the tranny part. I thought the torque converter does get drained by the flush method. Also, one has to drop the pan to change the dirty filter--I would never condone leaving that in. I am just concerned about the nooks and crannies in the tranny that might not get drained properly by just depending on gravity. Maybe take the best of both worlds. drain it and replace filter and then flush it. Yeah, you waste oil, but whatever.

[Maxbumpo]

From what little I've gleaned about automatic transmission life, as long as the fluid/filter is changed IAW MBs recommendations, the life of the transmission seems to directly correlate to the number of shifts.

Typical transmission life seems to be around 250k miles and up, which really is pretty impressive compared to other marques, but when contrasted to a diesel engine that can last 500k miles and up, seems to be a short life. I try to remember that many other cars automatic transmissions have shorter lives and be glad that the transmission in my car is still working great with 295k miles on the clock...

[JIMZ-MBZ]

----IF you can get the proper records to verify the mileage
>>>> instrument clusters can be easily changed out w/ lower mileage on speedo.

take the car to the 'owners' shop talk to the shop owner/manager --- AND---
take it to a mechanic that you know/trust have it reviewed and maybe spend 150.$ having a compression test done on it

it sounds kinda pricey,, mine was 3500$ and I thought it was "up-there" for the age in decent condition 250K miles on it,,,, but over the year + that its been my daily driver, I rely on this car with out hesitation.

so its your call,,,,
just be objective

[iDreamOfMB]

Thanks everyone for all the valuable info. I think this one will end up beyond my current budget and it's not local to me so I'll let this one pass.

I'll wait for that perfect '85 that I've been looking for for a while now.

If anyone is interested, or just wants to see the beautiful photos of the 300D I originally posted about, click below:

http://www.curiouscars.com/car_pages/1982_mercedes_benz_300_d.htm

[mobenz]

Bid is up to $7400. Just buy it. It's a beautiful car.

[iDreamOfMB]

I'm honestly very tempted to, but I've always wanted an '85, so I'm holding out.

But speaking of, does anyone know what the differences are between '82-'85 models?

[denver123]

I don't know the differences between the 82 and 85 but being that 85 was the last year of production as well as the fact that the 85 differs from all of the other years (I think) my guess is that they're going to hold value very well. If I had somewhere to keep this car indoors and the price stays reasonable (around 5 - 6 thousand) I'd buy it right up.

Copy & paste or type this item number 150115748706 in the ebay search bar.

Best regards,

[G. Johnson]

If the 123 Wagons are going for 12-13 thousand with twice as many miles, the sedan seems reasonable. The "DIESEL" factor is in play now on these values. The old argument is "diesel costs as much as regular gasoline" doen't really hold true when you consider less upkeep and the longevity of the engine!:)

[denver123]

Not to mention that diesel emissions contain between 30 and 50 percent fewer greenhouse gases than those of gasoline engines.

[JPMose]

There are very few differences between the '82 through '85 300D models. Mercedes cars, are always worth the most in their last production year. The logic being that the lastest has the most features and sometimes a shorter production run because it ended mid year. In most cases, unless it is a low mileage example and you plan on keeping low miles, you are paying more for little gain! The '85 has a different axle ratio so there's less RPM at highway speeds and slightly higher top speed (which you'll never use legally). However, this equates to slower off the line, which I personally rather have. If I had to point to one major improvement, it would be the 722.3 transmission! Several modifications were made to this unit over its approximate 16 year span. I believe most of the mods were within the first five years. A big mod. started with the 1984 model year, resulting in a softer 1-2 shift. The good news is a competent rebuild shop (there are a few in the states that yield great rebuilds, including the Merc. dealer) will incorporate all the mods. So if you buy an '82 or '83 that has a rebuilt transmission, it could very well shift better than an '85 with it's original transmission. My 1981 300SD shifted with such a jerk that I almost got rid of the car. Eventually, I just learned to live with it. When the transmission was rebuilt, it was so vastly improved, I felt like I had a different car.

The seat patterns on the MB tex changed a couple times between '82 and '85, including a double stitch on '83's and more tuck and rolls afterward.

I purchased an '83........I didn't focus on the year so much. I DID focus on finding a rust free car from the south, southwest or west coast. I ended up with a San Diego car. It is completely rust free. Although it has been garaged all it's life, I have invested in a mint replacement dashboard, new rear MB Tex seatback cover and other interior components. The hot dry southwest is hard on rubber, vinyl and leather. But this is a lot cheaper than dealing with rust!

Unless you have a softspot for 1985 cars (perhaps your parents had an '85), I would invest more time on finding one that has been very well maintained, a color combo you like and doesn't have rust.

I have excluded 1977 through 1981 models, as I am under the impression you want a turbo model.

Good luck with your hunt! By the way, check out the beautiful Maroon 1983 on Ebay right now!

[iDreamOfMB]

JP,

Thank you for all the helpful information, this site is proving to be a gold mine for W123 info.

And yes, my parents had the '85 model way back, and from the various photos I've seen online, there's something about the center console that is different between the '82/'83 and the '85s. As a kid, I remember fiddling with the all the buttons from the AC to the windows and stereo system.

So I can't quite put my finger on it, but the '85 interior just seems "more familiar". But, having said that, and as you and others on this thread have mentioned, rust takes priority. So I'll be on the look out for a rust-free 300D.

I am more interested in the turbo, but I also wanted to ask about the gasoline engines, any thoughts/comments about them? I read Mark Cosovich's W123 buyer's guide, and I got the impression that the diesels last much longer and are more durable. And I'm interested in going with biodiesel in the future, but if I do find that perfect W123 that's gasoline, is it worth it? Or are those engines troublesome?

[JPMose]

Hello again,

I have the day off today so I happen to see your reply. I am trying to think of any changes between '82 and '85 interiors (or devices within the interior) :confused: .
I am only referring to USA models in this and the prior posting, since that is what I am more familiar with. It is interesting to note that the Euro W123 300D non-turbo model has very similar interiors throughout the production run from '75-'85, while the USA 300D interiors can be segregated between '77-'81 and '82-'85 (in concert with non-turbo/turbo years for coupe/sedans....the wagon had a turbo in '81 but interior remained similar to early models).

During '82 through '85, I can only think of the following changes in the interior (I hope others will pipe in with other changes):

Seat covers (front): Leather covers all had the same pattern with six pleats. MB Tex had five pleats '82-'83 and six pleats '84-'85. During '83 model year, some had a single stitch between the pleats, while the rest had a double stitch. The same rules apply to the back seat but I am not sure on the number of pleats per year.

The Electric right mirror started in '83 so this switch was added to the console.

The Window and Fader switches remained the same from '82-'85.

The antenna switch changed in '84 but I think the appearance remained the same. The Hirschmann antenna unit changed in '84.

The front and rear dome lights changed in '83, adding the shut-off delay feature in the front unit.

The Grand Prix Becker Radio (optional with digital display) was model 612 from '81-'85. The face plate for '81-'82 had two timers and lacked the two toggle switches for volume and automatic station change. The '83-'85 had one timer and the addition of the two toggle switches just mentioned. The chassis was the same.

I believe the Europa Becker Radio (analog) was the same throughout the years.

The automatic climate control was the same from '81-'85 with a subtle change in in the buttons in '83...the middle and EC button added an unfilled upward arrow.

'82 had an 85MPH Speedometer, while the '83-'85 had a 120MPH. The instrument hands had a brushed metel finish in the base up to '82; '83-'85 had black. Starting in '83, the low fuel light glowed with the key in "1" position to indicate bulb operation.

These are the only changes that I can think of. I will be curious to hear about the console change you mentioned. I think there was a change to the back panel on the front seat to improve knee room for the rear passingers at some point. There was a wind noise deflector added behind the roof rail (gutter) starting in '83.

The cowl vents went from chrome to black in '83.

Don't forget the California versus Federal versions in '84 and '85.


REGARDING THE GAS MODELS...I'LL LET SOMEONE ELSE GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT THAT. ;)

[iDreamOfMB]

Thanks again JP.

I'm starting to think it's that right mirror switch as well as the digital radio that I'm finding familiar. So it may be that I don't necessarily need a '85.

I really need to test drive one of these before I invest any money in one. Maybe I'll hate how they drive, I highly doubt it, but I need to find someone who'll let me test drive theirs.

[sbiggers]

Its a classic. I would recommend verifying the miles and to test drive it. Its probably a reasonable price -- depdending market location.

[VLayton]

Am I dreaming? My have things changed in recent years. The underdog W123 is getting the clout I only fantasized about. :cool:

Someone stopped by with a 1985 380SE (that happens occassionally just because I have a couple Mercedes) that he wants to sell...

Back then, a car that sold for nearly twice a W123 price-
Nice big black flagship chassis with a V8- very pretty and rust-free deep gloss black as far as I could see, just under 200kmi. He's HOPING to get $3500 for it and I have my doubts but wished him luck anyway.

It's all about cost per mile. The W123's have become more valuable because their continued cost of operation efficientcy is becoming painfully and obviously more logical all the time.

I know Kent is fiercely proud of the newer models, and they are revolutionary technology, but when cost per mile is compared to ANY car, most don't even come close much less ones with such engineering, character, class and heritage.

As the new generations of car enthusiasts come along, the conventional Mercedes classics will be rarer in number and ratio, and will continue to rise in value and collectability. The great W123 being within reach of more budgets, is destined to be a very important collector model.

I'm still not able to picture a future marketplace where anyone will be willing to freshen up a 21st century body, pay to restore it mechanically, and then track down and put in $1000's of obsolete computer chips and super-proprietary software on top of it.

Not to mention, with 21st century computer modeling and fabrication, they can offer more and more variations of parts and models in limited numbers and be cost-effective in production, offering the consumer a greater aray of choice. Well when so few people will need such limited parts, it will be harder to get them. A, rare, B, not-cost effective to supply. As W123's are so universal model-wide and popular, we should have plenty of reasonable cost parts for a long while yet. As it is we are lucky freaks, other marque lovers aren't as well off as us by far. You may be surprised at the parts you CANNOT get for a 1983 Cadillac!!

I know if I was into another foreign marque and found out how good supplies are for Mercedes, I'd be jealous and likely switch!

Sure there's things to complain about, but really it's pretty trivial. I bet Citroen doesn't have a USA ombudsman....;)

OK I'll hand the megaphone back, I'm done shilling for now, no they don't pay me but that's a good idea :p

[sbiggers]

Keep in mind also that the 1982 300D MSRP was about $29,698 and in todays dollars that is ~$60,000 -- so you would be buying an almost new $60,000 valued car in today's dolloars for less than $10,000. Plus great MPG.

$10,000 sounds like a lot for 27 year old car. But restoring a w123 quickly adds up (e.g. $1K for paint; $1K for interior; $2.5K for transmission; $2-7K for a motor; $2K for misc such as steering and AC).

[JPMose]

"I know Kent is fiercely proud of the newer models, and they are revolutionary technology, but when cost per mile is compared to ANY car, most don't even come close much less ones with such engineering, character, class and heritage."

Well, as proud as I am of my older cars, to me there's nothing like a new car! When I had my new S-320 LWB, I really felt like I had jumped up quite a bit from my W126. It was smoother, quieter, more economical and overall...more technologically advanced. What other direction would Mercedes be moving other than forward? Unfortunately, the S320 did suffer some problems that were quite costly....but so did my 1981 300SD...and my dad's 500SEC, S500, 300SEL 4.5 and 300E....they were all great but became costly!

For now (and I hope for the long haul), I will continue enjoying my vintage cars as drivers (I also have a late model 4Runner Limited which is bullet proof!). But I never want to stop praising the progress Mercedes keeps making. So I have agree with Kent on this one. What I DON"T LIKE is him stating openly that we are only justifying the older models because we can't afford new ones. I may have taken that wrongly, but I thought that was a strong assumption on his part.

[VLayton]

Well then I'd say his theory isn't totally off, cost is very important to me. Perhaps I'd love W221s too if I could afford 75+ cents a mile to drive too. A big part of my attraction to the W123 diesel was operation cost (which includes purchase price)
Owning one makes a lot more sense to me than even a new Kia would. (As a previous contractor who had to use a personal car, I've done some thinking in regards to vehicle overhead per-mile which may be tainting my opinions)

I don't mean to disregard the newer cars' merits, but it's never been a possibility with my earnings, and after my adult experience to date I've become "trained" to consider overall costs. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be more likely to buy a $30,000 used Ferrari I could play with as opposed to a $250,000 one just because I had the money. I can't imagine feeling free to drive such a car. (I likely wouldn't be buying any 6 figure Benzes either, perhaps a historical example but..)

[JPMose]

Well it would hard for me to justify another new car at this point, watching how quickly they depreciate! Fortunately, there are SO MANY people that take great care of their Mercedes from day one.....a used cream puff, no matter what age, is always around the corner! :cool:

[Navy CPO]

[QUOTE=vlayton;106299]Am I dreaming? My have things changed in recent years. The underdog W123 is getting the clout I only fantasized about. :cool:

I just purchased my first 300TD (but my second W123). Reason for my interest in the W123 is the simplicity, durability and that cool "cachet" these cars have and that cachet is attracting more people to the model for sure.

The person I purchsed my car from has an interest in Mercedes in general and has several cars for sale. One is a beautiful Euro 450SEL 6.9. He can't get a good price for the car and It's really ironic if you contrast W123 prices with current 6.9 prices! You can get a pristine 6.9 for less than an equal condition W123 it seems, especially if it's a wagon.

Go figure. Of course, anyone who knows better has a cold sweat just thinking about a mid to major repair on a 6.9.

Just food for thought.

[Highway Star]

Unless you have a softspot for 1985 cars...



Why do I get the feeling someone's talking about me?:confused:

[JPMose]

Was 1985 your birth year? :D

[Highway Star]

Nope. 1982. That's why I find it odd that I always end up with '85s.

[Al Cooper]

DreamofMB; I think IMHO $ 10,000 is a little high for a 300 sedan. Thats more like a 300CD price. But if everything checks out & the mileage is correct I would go for it as they are getting scarcer & scarcer every year & they wont get any cheaper.

I could have had a pristine 300CD w/120,000 miles on it for $ 12,000 or a little less a few years ago but wasn't ready to trade Manfried my 240D + cash for it. I also turned down my daughters 300TD wagon 3-4 years ago at 135,000. They got $ 3500 for it!!! :eek: What a steal. If I'de had any sense then I would be driving it now. So I say try to get the price down some & go for it.:)

Al in Red Sox Nation with

Manfried the silvr bulit 1982 240D in cool slo moshun @ 132,250:cool:

Marlene the white flash 1988 560SL running like a top after a check out 2 weeks ago @ 82,567:D