How Many 6.3 Were Manufactured?

[DIAZ-CANEJA]

How many 300 SE or SEL with the 6.3 engine were manufactured from 1968 to 1970?.
I own one that I'm thinking to restore but I've seen many cheap cars for sale at EBay, so maybe I'll sell it for parts.
I thought these cars were very desirable.

[bill streep]

They ARE very desirable - and the cheap ones are money pits (actually, I've heard they ALL are). These cars have always been among the most expensive MB cars to maintain. Like most any car, it's cheaper to buy one already put back together than to fix one. Especially if the suspension is shot...

[Suginami]

I've read that these cars are money pits mainly because the W109's use the air suspension.

The W108's are a better car from a cost standpoint because they use regular coil springs.

I was going through some back issues of The Star Magazine, and in the Nov / Dec 1997 issue there is a great article on the 108 / 109 / 111 chassis written by Rich Taylor, Vintage Editor:

"I like Mercedes Benz W108 / 109 / 111s. I like them a lot. I know they're big, gas-guzzling boxes, but they're also the last of the quality "wooden" Mercedes as opposed to today's "plastic" Mercedes. I find them incredibly solid, rewardingly over-built, and remarkably modern for a model line that ended 25 years ago. And in today's market, at least, shamefully undervalued.

Rich Taylor then goes into an interesting discussion about the five 108/109/111s he owned once at one time, one of which was a W111 300 SE 6.3 Coupe.

The article ends with the following paragraph:

"The 280 SE 4.5 is one of my favorite Mercedes, not the least because for years whenever I was around the factory designers or engineers on press trips to Stuttgart, I would always ask "What's the best car Daimler-Benz ever built." Virtually unanimously the Mercedes factory people would say,
"Steel suspension W108 sedan with 4.5 liter V8. This is the best Mercedes ever."

[DIAZ-CANEJA]

The car I own has a good suspension (maybe I'll have to buy only the air cushions), the engine and tranny seem to be very good. The body is rusted but I found a complete good body for very few money.
What would you fellows do?

[Suginami]

I would transfer everything over to the car with the good body.

[badali]

From 1967 to 1972 there were 6526 6.3s built. 1839 were sold in the US.

[ja17]

Even with or without air suspension, all the 108 and 109 chasis cars had the complex king pin type front suspension. The V-8 models with their heavy cast iron engines tended to wear these suspensions out sooner if they were not maintained. The specified lubrication intervals were fairly frequent especially compared to todays maintenanace free suspensions. A suspension rebuild on these cars is expensive. A buyer should always check the front suspension "hard parts" for problems as well as the air suspension in the 109s. Don't overlook a good running W108 280-SE (6cyl), these are a pleasure to own and drive. Much cheaper to feed and maintaine. The later models had the improved smoother shifting automatic as did the 4.5. The earlier 108 cars and the 6.3. had a four speed automatic which was somewhat rough shifting and more complex.
These 108 and 109 cars were some of the last Mercedes with the "living room" interiors. They had huge comfortable, well -sprung seats. There was plenty of room. Seating position and comfort was outstanding.

I made a swival chair from a nice black leather 108 seat. It is the most comfortable seat in the house! :D

Joe Alexander
1955 190-SL
1966 300-SE (108 short wheel base, no air suspension,alloy eng.)
1969 300-SEL 6.3
1970 250-C
1974 450-SLC (4spd. stick)
1984 280-TD euro
2002 SLK-32 AMG

[Tom Hanson]

If you find a good example that is properly maintained and not rusty, they are a great car. Not really all that much to maintain. I had one many years ago and miss it.

[Dean Yelenik]

My thinking is - assume a money pit - good car, bad car, rusty car, whatever - it's going to be a money pit. To really take care of it, and make it run right is going to be expensive. There's too many old parts on it, some of which are getting to be hard to get, and are hard to put on. I had a nice one maybe five years ago - bought it right, took care of it myself, sold it right to a Saudi sheik, and still lost a fortune. I just don't think there is an economically viable formula here. You've got to love it to want to do it. The whole idea is soooo far out of my system and I can't even remember why I wanted to do it in the first place.

However, when I see a nice 108, short wheel base, in black, going down the road, I get a little misty eyed but am always able to fight it off. I'm suspicious of this quote about the 4.5 being the best Mercedes ever. I've seen the quote before but the Germans I know don't even know what it is. It was a US market car - the only V8 108 they got was a 3.5, and they got very few of them. To them a 4.5 is a 116 body.

[Tom Hanson]

They're halfway informed, and the 3.5 was a great car. I had a 73 450SE for 6 years. Great car too, but I didn't spend nearly as much in maintenance on my 6.3. The 6.3 is just too basic. No electronics to mess with. I suppose now that they're old cars, you could spend a bunch of money on them. I talked to a guy in AZ today who found a really nice 69 6.3, in good "driver" condition. Strong runner, good compression, decent everything else. $6K. Not bad. I'd be more inclined to spend two or three times that to get one completely sorted out and just enjoy it. I don't think any old car is practicle as a daily driver. Just makes too much sense to put alot of miles on something modern that has a decent warranty and save the classics for the weekend. I still want another 6.3, but have to wait until both kids finish their educations. 19 year old daughter in college, and a 13 year old son in private school. I'll be 50 this summer. I'll probsbly br 65 before I can afford a toy. Life's tough sometimes !!

[Frank Barrett]

Friends:

Ah, the interminable 6.3 debate lives on!

Having owned one for 17 years, I must say this is the only car I ever had a love-hate relationship with. When I started looking for a 6.3 in 1983, I thought I could afford to buy a cheap one and fix it. When I started adding up the numbers, though, this was clearly a Major Dumb Idea. So I saved my pennies for a while and bought the best one I could afford.

That technique paid off, but I never had the guts to calculate the cost per mile. Still, once something was fixed, it stayed fixed. The car was very reliable and despite being an aerodynamic brick, it was still capable of 140 mph--at 5,000 feet in altitude!

Having experienced numerous thrills--and numerous bills--in 15 years, I reluctantly decided to sell it. After several years of on-and-off ads in The Star and numerous lookie-loos and bottom-feeders, a discriminating gentleman appeared with the necessary loot, so away it went.

Two weeks ago I saw the car again, and it was like seeing an ex-girlfriend (some might say an ex-wife). Everyone who likes high-performance sedans should own a 6.3. Heck, it's way cheaper than an E55 AMG!

Frank

[Dean Yelenik]

I failed to mention - my 6.3 came with $30,000 of legitimate receipts over the previous approx. 7 years. I spent another $10k on it about 18 months - admittedly overdoing it in some cases. The problem was not the engine - the engine itself seems to be very sound. With that engine you can't really drive the car safely unless other systems are in good working order - like suspension, brakes, etc. It's not a car on which you can comfortably make compromises - you need to do it right. I followed the this with 2 different 3.5 coupes - on which parts and labor always seemed to be about half of what the 6.3 cost.

[DIAZ-CANEJA]

Thanks for all the opinions, I'm 52 and, as Tom, Girls at school demand a lot of money, but I'm a DIY very deep involved in dping as much as I can in cars. The only thing I don't deal with is Body and Paint, but it's a nice and cheap work in Mexico.
My idea is to spend the most time I can of weekends for the next two or more years fixing this car.
BTW not so long ago a totally restored 6.3 was sold at Ebay fo $ 30,100.00.
Hope my car will be worth that amount in a couple of years.
:)

[Tom Hanson]

Hopefully in about a year, my lengthy project car for a dear friend in Japan will be finished. We'll have a great collection of photos. My friend has a stock 6.3, and decided he wanted something faster that still had "the look". So, we're building him a 6.3 Street Rod. No more air suspension. We "tubbed" the frame, and it's all new from just forward of the rear seat all the way to the rear body panel. The old swing axle was removed. We had a custome rear end / suspension designed and built. It uses a 9" Ford center section, 3.42:1, with competition Corvette half shafts, dual coilover shocks with a multi link setup, and inboard disc brakes. The trans is basically a stock 6.3 unit with all new guts inside. Engine, you ask ?? 6.3 V8, 9.5:1 Venolia pistons. Isky cams ("square"), modified "red-label" injection pump, and everything is ported, polished, balanced, relieved, milled, and so forth. How much power? More than enough. If not, well put a blower on it. It should be fairly quick. The body looks stock, but we did graft the slight flare from the 111 coupe fenders onto it. We have to build a drive shaft, and a new rear seat. The inner fender wells intrude slightly into that area. We tried to talk the owner into a plexiglass trun floor so we could show off the new rear. Got vetoed..
Stand by for further announcements.

[ja17]

Hello Tom,
I have a good race for your friend:

Dan Smith wrote:

" Could you contact me about making all four carbon fiber fenders, hood, and trunk lid. I'm trying to flare the front and rear fenders somewhat. The fronts two inches, the rears up to four inches four larger wheels and tires.
I'm looking for weight reduction. I currently have the world's quickest 6.3, and I'm looking for improved quarter mile times. Dan Smith, Oregon"

Joe Alexander

[Tom Hanson]

Dan Smith's car sounds interesting. What makes it so fast? Carbon fiber body parts would be terribly expensive, I'm sure. I don't know who could make them, but surely there is someone.

[Tom Hanson]

Joe,
What's under the hood, and what mods have you done? I'm also looking for a good source for a set of headers. Any suggestions? I keep hitting a dead end.

[Tom Hanson]

P.S. There are some very good fabricators out here. One guy made a right fender and nose panel for an aluminum body Gullwing a few years back. I'm sure carbon-fiber would be easy. Just need good "donor" sheet metal for a pattern/mold.